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Offline Real Shorthorns

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Heritage Shorthorn Society
« on: March 14, 2018, 10:20:07 AM »
For those interested in older Shorthorn genetics there is a new Shorthorn organization called the "Heritage Shorthorn Society" www.heritageshorthorn.org.  It contains a lot of reference material from old Shorthorn semen codes to Shorthorn books to older Shorthorn bull pictures.  There is an extensive list of Heritage Shorthorn breeders and informational buying guides.

Offline idalee

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Re: Heritage Shorthorn Society
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2018, 06:16:12 PM »
The official registry for Heritage Shorthorns is the American Milking Shorthorn Society.   If a pedigree will trace, in all it's branches, to the American Shorthorn Herd Book before about 1920,  it is given a designation of "N" for "Native" as part of the animal's name.   If the pedigree will trace to the American Shorthorn Herd  Book prior to 1920,  it will also trace to Coates' Herd Book in England.   It is claimed that there are only about 500 of these cattle in the United States.   We have a few here

Offline idalee

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Re: Heritage Shorthorn Society
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2018, 06:18:16 PM »
Another Native Shorthorn.  The red cow is 10 years old and the roan is 7 years old,  maternal sisters

Online Medium Rare

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Re: Heritage Shorthorn Society
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2018, 09:26:23 AM »
Would you mind sharing the pedigree behind that roan idalee?

Offline Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR

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Re: Heritage Shorthorn Society
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2018, 11:44:54 AM »
The roan catch my attention.

Offline idalee

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Re: Heritage Shorthorn Society
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2018, 03:11:01 PM »
I am not as computer literate as many who submit to this discussion group,  so I don't know how to put the pedigree on here.   You will have to look them up on the Shorthorn Website.     The red cow is Double H Scottshill Lady N   418940;    The roan cow is Idalee Defender Lady  x4182073.   

Offline idalee

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Re: Heritage Shorthorn Society
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2018, 03:15:58 PM »
Here is a picture of the dam of both cows.   The calf is the roan cow

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: Heritage Shorthorn Society
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2018, 04:24:57 PM »
Roan cow definitely caught my eye too Though I see no reason to be feeding her to the point of her having gobby pones like that, so long as when shes lactating it all goes to milk, I guess its all good  (thumbsup)

Offline Real Shorthorns

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Re: Heritage Shorthorn Society
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2018, 05:35:58 PM »
For those interested any Heritage Shorthorn can have registration papers from the American Milking Shorthorn Society (AMSS), American Shorthorn Association (ASA) or both.  If a breeder only registers their Shorthorns in ASA and they purchase a Heritage Shorthorn they can send ASA the AMSS papers with $25 and they will be issued ASA registration papers.  The reverse is true as ASA Shorthorns can be registered with AMSS for $25.  However they would only have the N (Native) designation if they are qualified.

Most breeders do not realize that many of the most famous bulls in Modern Shorthorn History are designated Heritage (Native).  They include such famous bulls as Boa Kae Royal Oak, Four Point Major, Kenmar President 26A, Kinnaber Leader 9th, Mandalong Super Flag, Pleasant Dawn Seal, and TPS Coronet Leader 21st.  There are literally 100's of older Shorthorn bulls that have been certified Heritage (Native).  Information as to whether a certain bull or cow has been certified Heritage (Native) or qualifies can be obtained through the AMSS office.   

The question also comes up what about EPDs and genomic testing.  Certainly it can play a role but it depends on how much faith a person puts in these evaluations.  Holsteins have the most comprehensive production of any cattle breed-literally millions of records.  A Holstein cow recently broke the all time milk production record for 365 days in milk-79,000#.  All her "modern" genomic tests showed her to be a cow of low genetic merit and she should have been culled.  Enough said.

Gary Kapers (Kapers Cattle) has utilized 2 Heritage Shorthorn bulls (Meadowbrook Chieftain 9th and Nelco Mcleod) in his linebreeding program that is now producing some powerhouse bulls.  He is an example of a Modern Shorthorn breeder that has melded the old with the new.

Heritage Shorthorns have so much to offer in helping to build better Modern Shorthorns.

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: Heritage Shorthorn Society
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2018, 05:51:48 PM »
The modern bulls you mentioned were born over 50 years ago.   I am interested in using a Heritage SH bull-  what are some modern 2018 choices I have?

Offline idalee

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Re: Heritage Shorthorn Society
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2018, 08:38:10 PM »
If you have an animal registered in AMSS that you want to register with ASA,  it will cost $50 payable to AMSS and then $25 payable to ASA.   I have never registered an animal the reverse,  but the last fee schedule I have is $50 payable to ASA and then the appropriate registration fee payable to AMSS according to the age of the animal.
Regarding the animals qualified for "N" status,  AMSS as the tracer and certifier of Native status has never published an official and comprehensive list of "N" qualified animals.   Perhaps  Heritage Shorthorn could lobby AMSS to produce such a list because there are many animals who claim to be Native but without official documentation to that effect. 
As far as any modern Heritage Shorthorn bulls,   there are several breeders who are members of the Heritage Shorthorn organization and  you can find their names at that website.   However,  by definition,  the genetics are ancient.    Coates' Herd Book dates to 1822 with pedigrees tracing back to the 1780's and earlier.  In addition,  there are anecdotal records for thoroughbred Shorthorns having been bred on the estates of the Dukes of Northumberland back into the 1580's!   

Online beebe

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Re: Heritage Shorthorn Society
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2018, 10:31:06 PM »
The modern bulls you mentioned were born over 50 years ago.   I am interested in using a Heritage SH bull-  what are some modern 2018 choices I have? 

There are several choices.  DMH Cherry Fillet might suit you if I understand the direction you are heading.  Dennis Hoffrogge is a source of bulls.  I think I remember you talking about frame score 4 cattle.  My Minnesota Max is about that size.

Offline knabe

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Re: Heritage Shorthorn Society
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2018, 11:11:55 PM »
A Holstein cow recently broke the all time milk production record for 365 days in milk-79,000#.  All her "modern" genomic tests showed her to be a cow of low genetic merit and she should have been culled.  Enough said.


no, actually we need a link.


Offline cbcr

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Re: Heritage Shorthorn Society
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2018, 10:56:46 AM »
We just looked up the Holstein cow.  Here is a link to her story https://www.dairyherd.com/article/new-national-milk-production-record-set-wisconsin-cow

We also looked to cow up in the CDCB (Council on Dairy Cattle Breeding) and she HAS NOT been genomic tested.  She does have a traditional genetic evaluation which does show her to be low for milk and NM$.  Their is a difference between genomics and a traditional genetic evaluation.

Offline 764wdchev

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Re: Heritage Shorthorn Society
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2018, 01:47:40 PM »
I don't know a thing about the Dairy's registry or system, so for clarification..

Is the traditional genetic evaluation equal to phenotypic evaluation? Like traits that can be observed- color coat, udder structure, animal weight, etc..

And their genomic test would be a subset of their genotype? Most of the genomic tests are based on utilizing Illumina's 50k or 150k chip. Similar to what the beef breeds are doing?


 
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