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Author Topic: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing  (Read 9668 times)

Offline redcows

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2020, 09:10:14 AM »
When did they add red and white Holsteins?

Offline cbcr

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2020, 10:55:01 AM »
Red Holstein is not allowed in the Heritage Shorthorn.  The American Milking Shorthorn Society has allowed a great amount of Red Holstein genetics into the breed.  There are Milking Shorthorn animals that are over 50% Holstein blood.

The amount of actual Milking Shorthorn blood in the breed is concerning to many breeders and they are wanting to work toward bringing the purity of the Milking Shorthorn to a much higher percentage.

Offline Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2020, 05:25:33 AM »
Dairy Shorthorns in Uk also allowed Holstein, as well as Norwegian Red, Swedish Red, Ayrshire, Illawarras, Red Danish. They starts the crossbredings on the 60's and now is very rare find real pure Dairy Shorthorn on UK without infusions.
Seems like Shorthorn is an extinct breed.

Offline Hopster1000

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2020, 06:44:55 AM »
Rare Breeds Survival Trust in the UK monitors two sections of native dairy Shorthorn.

https://www.rbst.org.uk/northern-dairy-shorthorn2

https://www.rbst.org.uk/dairy-shorthorn-original-population

Offline cbcr

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2020, 08:16:46 AM »
Dairy Shorthorns in Uk also allowed Holstein, as well as Norwegian Red, Swedish Red, Ayrshire, Illawarras, Red Danish. They starts the crossbredings on the 60's and now is very rare find real pure Dairy Shorthorn on UK without infusions.
Seems like Shorthorn is an extinct breed.

That is the same problem here in the US.  What the AMSS did when they allowed those outside breeds, they gave them full Milking Shorthorn numbers.  When we started our registry, we were noticing that many of our Scandinavian breeds were showing a percentage of Milking Shorthorn.  After following the trail, we discovered that the Norwegian bull K.Schie was identified as a Milking Shorthorn and had no ancestry showing for him.  We added several generations to his ancestry and then we had to correct his ID so that his Norwegian Red number was the primary number.  Also the Illawarra were given full Milking Shorthorn numbers and in doing so offspring of those bulls born in the US were not being included in the International proofs at Interbull.

With so much outside breed influence the Milking Shorthorn for the most part is nothing more than another Red Holstein as many of them today are over 50% Holstein genetics.  Breeders are finding out just how little Milking Shorthorn genetics are in their cattle and many are looking for ways to bring the purity of the Milking Shorthorn up to a much higher level.  If they don't the breed may very well find itself in extinction, this is a comment that I have heard several times from geneticists and others in the last couple of months.  This is not only a problem in the US, but all other countries that have Milking Shorthorn.

Offline oakview

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2020, 09:48:02 AM »
The dilution of "pure" genetics of almost every breed of every species is a direct result of breeders, and often a breed association, attempting to make their breed something they're not.  Selection within a breed for certain traits can take many generations.  Someone is always looking for a short cut.  Anybody know where I can find a real Angus?

Offline cbcr

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2020, 10:50:09 AM »
The dilution of "pure" genetics of almost every breed of every species is a direct result of breeders, and often a breed association, attempting to make their breed something they're not.  Selection within a breed for certain traits can take many generations.  Someone is always looking for a short cut.  Anybody know where I can find a real Angus?

oakview, I think of any statement that could have been made,this is the most accurate statement.  well said!

Offline Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2020, 03:58:28 PM »
Dairy Shorthorns in Uk also allowed Holstein, as well as Norwegian Red, Swedish Red, Ayrshire, Illawarras, Red Danish. They starts the crossbredings on the 60's and now is very rare find real pure Dairy Shorthorn on UK without infusions.
Seems like Shorthorn is an extinct breed.

That is the same problem here in the US.  What the AMSS did when they allowed those outside breeds, they gave them full Milking Shorthorn numbers.  When we started our registry, we were noticing that many of our Scandinavian breeds were showing a percentage of Milking Shorthorn.  After following the trail, we discovered that the Norwegian bull K.Schie was identified as a Milking Shorthorn and had no ancestry showing for him.  We added several generations to his ancestry and then we had to correct his ID so that his Norwegian Red number was the primary number.  Also the Illawarra were given full Milking Shorthorn numbers and in doing so offspring of those bulls born in the US were not being included in the International proofs at Interbull.

With so much outside breed influence the Milking Shorthorn for the most part is nothing more than another Red Holstein as many of them today are over 50% Holstein genetics.  Breeders are finding out just how little Milking Shorthorn genetics are in their cattle and many are looking for ways to bring the purity of the Milking Shorthorn up to a much higher level.  If they don't the breed may very well find itself in extinction, this is a comment that I have heard several times from geneticists and others in the last couple of months.  This is not only a problem in the US, but all other countries that have Milking Shorthorn.

Some times I have the feel that some Breeders Societies make this intentionally. To cause mistakes and breeders lose her patience and enter in full on the mongrels crossbreedings!

Always had in ind that a breeder society is to keep and preserve the breed genes! KEEP and PRESERVE! Of course that some breeding programs are necessary time by time for one or another reason, but they can simply make clear what are the crosses and what are not, and keep in clear for all!

Offline Willow Springs

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2020, 09:50:30 AM »
So are there any Heritage beef lines left, or do all the current live Heritage cattle derive from Haumont breeding? I don't think there would be any left here in Canada as I am fairly sure that every Shorthorn in the closed book has multiple crosses of Irish cattle. I have checked a few herds that would be most likely and they all have Irish.

Offline cbcr

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2020, 03:07:17 PM »
There are several that have non-Haumont genetics and the number is growing.

Those interested can look on the HSS website heritageshorthorn.org or send an email to HSS at info@heritageshorthorn.org

Offline Medium Rare

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2020, 07:25:56 PM »
Is there a stand alone database where animal pedigrees and defect status can be browsed or is this dependent upon the ASA and breeders maintaining dual registrations?

Offline cbcr

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2020, 09:32:16 PM »
Is there a stand alone database where animal pedigrees and defect status can be browsed or is this dependent upon the ASA and breeders maintaining dual registrations?

As we build the database, we will have a searchable database for the Heritage Shorthorn online that will have the information.

Offline Heritage Shorthorn

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2020, 09:48:19 PM »
On February 1st the Heritage Shorthorn Society (HSS) will be posting a list of Heritage bulls that have tested free of TH,  PHA, DS. and MYO.  This list will include several famous old Heritage bulls that have never had genetic information posted on them before and will be updated as more information becomes available to HSS from breeders using the semen from Heritage Shorthorn bulls.  This list is independent of ASA although some of the information may also be on either the ASA or CSA websites.  Only Heritage bulls that have been tested for all four defects will be listed.  Heritage bulls that have been tested for 1-3 of the defects will not be listed.  They can be added to the HSS list if the missing information is provided to HSS.  Partial information on some these bulls may be available on the ASA or CSA websites.

As HSS builds its genetic data base more and more pedigree information will become available.  Certainly there is pedigree information on both the ASA and CSA websites for many Heritage Shorthorn bulls particularly those that are dual registered.  All Shorthorns registered with HSS will have their searchable pedigrees posted along with known genetic test information.  For those interested, there is also an option on HSS registration papers for milk protein (A2, etc) information to be posted if it is known.

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2020, 01:30:56 AM »
Whats the significant of the defect free list?

All of the recognized defects were infused via Maine or some other outside blood.  (The cattle gods sure have a funny way of keeping people honest)

Is it not implicit that if its truly a heritage Shorthorn that the animal is free of all 4?

Offline knabe

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2020, 06:53:53 AM »
So having a defect helps  prove they are not pure?

Not sure what that really does.


 

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