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Author Topic: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing  (Read 17938 times)

Offline E6 Durhams

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #90 on: January 24, 2020, 05:33:29 PM »
But environment. We all raise them in a different one. I left the calves on the cows until just now. April/ May calves. My roan bulled weighed 750 today when we walked him across the scale. Is that a testament to his growth or my ability to provide enough fresh forage each day to maximize his growth potential. His dam weighs 1200 pounds wet. Ears half froze off. But she made a athletic bull calf that is a hog. I am in charge of running cows here on 500 acres of mostly fescue/ clover and bluegrass. Will the same animal that thrives here thrive in your environment AJ? I dont know. The cows here have to walk a lot to graze and drink. A lot. But the grass is ******* deep too.

Offline oakview

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #91 on: January 24, 2020, 05:51:42 PM »
His performance is a direct reflection of his ability to grow and perform in the environment you provide.  Some of the older type bulls I did not like would sire calves that couldn't approach 500 pounds in the time yours took to reach 750.  Some bulls of today wouldn't either, for that matter.  If you've got cows you're happy with that raise calves that you're happy with, I wouldn't change a thing.  The trick is to find the next herd sire that improves or at least maintains what you've got. 

Show type cattle have needed a shot of real fleshing ability for a long time.  It's easier to make them look "fuller" with all the who knows what that's done to some of them, but it doesn't help them in the pasture.  I've had pretty good luck over the years either raising my own bulls or purchasing them from folks that raise them similarly to how I do.     

Offline beebe

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #92 on: January 24, 2020, 06:53:22 PM »
Performance, indicated to some degree by weaning weight, ADG, and yearling weight certainly has some significance to me.  Many of you aren't old enough to remember 350-400 pound weaning weights on good Iowa bluegrass pasture, but I am.  I am more interested in calves that have the genetic ability to perform much better than that on my same pasture, handled the same way.  I don't need a lecture on the efficiencies of small cows.  The cows that raised those 350 pound calves didn't come close to weaning half their body weight.  Their udders hung so low the calves had to almost lie down to nurse.  I don't care what anybody else does, but I'm not real interested in cattle that look like Clipper King of Bapton or Cat 20.  If you ever have a chance, read the Leader 21 story from the old Thomas-Gordon-Draper sales catalogs.  He was an outlier, not at all like the other bulls in the sale where Bob Gordon bought him. That's why he bought him so cheap.   He became popular as a show sire.  That's why ABS had him and there's so much semen around.  He sired some performance and increased frame size.  If you'd look through the old Shorthorn Worlds, about half of the Shorthorn bulls advertised in the late 60's and early 70'w were sons of Leader 21.  Breeders were looking for what he offered.  Most of the heritage bulls that are being used today, were also popular  show sires in their day.  I have semen in my tanks from a dozen of those old bulls.  All but one was either a good show bull in his day or sired some show winners.
In my opinion big should be measured in pounds rather than inches.  Clipper King of Bapton weighed 2650 pounds that is big enough for me.  I am sure Cat 20 weighed well over a ton.  I have a young granddaughter of Clipper King of Bapton that my granddaughter showed in 4H that still has not had any grain.  I believe she has a bright future in producing grass fed genetics.  I recently sold a steer that weighed 1250 and hung an 830 pound carcass that sold for $2.80 a pound hanging weight.  He was a straight Native Shorthorn whose mama was might weigh 1200 and his daddy is not quite a frame score 4.  That is profitable.

Offline Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #93 on: January 25, 2020, 01:01:55 PM »
Well, nothing is changed. Show winners on the semen catalogues on the past, and show winners on the catalogues today. All stay equall on the end.

Offline Jacob B

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #94 on: January 25, 2020, 02:18:43 PM »
Oak view....extremely wise words couldnt say it better. Do what works for you. Not what someone else tells you works for you wherever you are in this world. There is a huge disconnect from the real world and what we can do to an animal to make em expectable in the show ring. Do what works for you and what makes you happy for whatever end of spectrum you enjoy

Offline Jacob B

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #95 on: January 25, 2020, 02:20:22 PM »
Plus, why should I talk about what the post is intended for. Thats not what we do on this board anymore, we always make it a fight to tell others what they should do. Who cares about what the original poster was asking haha

Offline knabe

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #96 on: January 25, 2020, 05:56:03 PM »
All threads eventually jump the shark and then they become like the word thread.


it's not good or bad.


people who want more content might try providing content or whatever.


don't expect a 100% related response.


it's just the way it is.


there is more information on this website regarding cattle than just about all the others combined.
"The generation that told us to question authority, has now become the Authority we cannot question!"

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #97 on: January 26, 2020, 09:05:23 AM »
Oak view....extremely wise words couldnt say it better. Do what works for you. Not what someone else tells you works for you wherever you are in this world. There is a huge disconnect from the real world and what we can do to an animal to make em expectable in the show ring. Do what works for you and what makes you happy for whatever end of spectrum you enjoy

What is it that is working for you?

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #98 on: January 26, 2020, 09:51:21 AM »
Oakview do you still have your leader 9th son? I want to buy him if so


Offline knabe

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"The generation that told us to question authority, has now become the Authority we cannot question!"

Offline oakview

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #100 on: January 27, 2020, 08:58:35 AM »
I sold my Leader 9th son a couple of years ago to a gentleman that markets organic beef.  He still has him and is very happy with him.  There's a photo of him on the ASA website.  He has been collected.  I have two sons that I am using.  They seem to be a combination of the things I liked about the Leader 9th bull himself with a little more "look" that I like.  I have used the Leader 9-18 bull for a few years and he is the easiest calving bull I have used along with siring calves with some eye appeal.

As far as what is working for me goes, I have a little of everything.  All I know is that I just turned 65 and need a lot less of it! 

Offline librarian

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #101 on: January 27, 2020, 10:28:14 AM »
The white calf was born breech. I don't know about Felix, but I am very curious about the shape of the calves he will sire. This is a reservation I have and why I say he has a long way to go to prove himself.
Try to remember that I am a producer of grass fed beef. I don't have great grass and I'm not an intensive grazer. My cows are Galloways and Galloway/Shorthorn crosses. The Shorthorn crosses go to my old bull Amos, who was an ET bull from 60's semen. I have calves coming this summer from the DMH Ollie bull that was a Native x Lincoln Red Bull. His dam was a Minn Max daughter.
The Shorthorn maternal genetics in my population have a very long hip. My Galloway cows have a long hip. I won't use a bull with a short hip. I calve on pasture. I have a lot of confidence that the white calf, Snowball, who's sire is a Leader 6th son by a Maid of Promise 189th daughter, is going to work well for me as a maternal bull that I can save Blue Grey F1 cows from. Felix may be a terminal sire for weight gain on mediocre forage. All I know is that he hasn't missed a beat and is getting even fatter on the hay I'm giving him...which is bound to be low protein with our wet Nebraska summer. Will Felix transmit muscle gain on grass or fat gain? Only observation and following through under my own managment will give an answer. Direct marketing of beef is about flavor and tenderness. As long as finish weight at 20 months is 1000 lbs, I'm okay. Dressing % makes or breaks the profit margin. I'm not a superb business person and my goal is to provide holistic nutrition from farm to family. Cat 20 is not what I would consider optimal for the real world- but we don't know what he would look like on pasture after breeding 50 cows. All we can do is try something different. The beauty of a beef business is you can eat the mistakes. What I'm really looking for from Felix is a son out of one of my Amos x Galloway or Ollie x Galloway daughters or Snowball x Galloway daughters. I won't know who compliments the daughters and what the meat is like until I try.
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Offline librarian

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #102 on: January 27, 2020, 10:31:23 AM »
"Leader 6th son by a Maid of Promise 189th daughte" I'm supposed to say OUT OF about cows, not BY. Sorry about that.
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Offline librarian

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #103 on: January 27, 2020, 10:42:13 AM »
The black cow with white underline is an Amos daughter out of a Galloway cow. She is a terrific F1 cow that raises better calves that my straight Galloway cows from the same cow family. As a calf, Amos was far more like the Felix calf than the Snowball calf. This is what I believe is the real usefulness of using Heritage Shorthorn genetics. Really using the old Shorthorn blood the way it has always been used...for complimentary crosses. I'm very appreciative of the work the Heritage Shorthorn Society is doing to make this possible.
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Offline librarian

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #104 on: January 27, 2020, 11:15:24 AM »
CSB has been using a Cat 20 son for several years and there is WHR info on 42 progeny.
https://shorthorn.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&animal_registration=4198411
They also have a Leader 21 son in use.
https://shorthorn.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&animal_registration=4162147
This is a real world operation in North Dakota and, I think, representative of working Heritage genetics x environmental interactions.

My Felix calf is by a Weston Resource son, but he is 3/8 Cat 20 by pedigree...I think. Adding up the percentages gets confusing.
 I can't find a photo of Weston Resource. Does anyone have a picture of him? Thanks.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 11:33:22 AM by librarian »
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

 

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