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Author Topic: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing  (Read 18520 times)

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #135 on: February 05, 2020, 06:12:38 PM »
White bull reminds me a lot of a white ball dee royal commando son that was in the Oklahoma shorthorn sale 2017ish.   Same type as royal commando himself. To me that design appears exceptionally flat sided but the outcome may surprise me when crosses on some squattier type cows. 

I like a lot of these old bulls - wish those with access to semen on these bulls would breed them to native beef cows rather than the milking Shorthorns.  Anyone know of anyone doing this?

Offline beebe

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #136 on: February 05, 2020, 06:25:36 PM »
Tell me  where there are native Shorthorn cows that don't have dual blood in them and I will.  The Albaugh herd while having  dual purpose blood have compact smaller cows that produces grass finished beef for the California restaurant trade.

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #137 on: February 05, 2020, 06:58:41 PM »
When I was a kid I had Aberfeldy-louada-etc sired heifers and 2 by local dual bulls that were the best by far-outgrew everything and were the thickest of them all Those bulls were BIG-even by 80s standards and were thicker butted than anything around-including the Angus I dont know how much dual that horned bull in Closes ad has-i dont think much to look at him-He reminds me of a larger version the Leveldale and Waukaru bulls I used to see at the Eastern national in the 60s JMO-hes the best bull that has been recently alive in the ads on the native assoc O0

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #138 on: February 06, 2020, 08:59:26 AM »
Tell me  where there are native Shorthorn cows that don't have dual blood in them and I will.  The Albaugh herd while having  dual purpose blood have compact smaller cows that produces grass finished beef for the California restaurant trade.

Yea Im not sure if any exist either.  Maybe itll just take time: two or three top crosses to the old beef bulls to dilute to dual phenotype.   I hadnt looked at Albaughs website in years. The bulls on there are as dual looking as you can find- though I did see some smaller beefier types shown on their fb page.

 

Offline oakview

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #139 on: February 06, 2020, 09:41:14 AM »
Ball Dee Royal Commando was not a flat sided bull.  Several of us have phots, perhaps we can post one.  He was owned by Bert Moore's parents.  I know Bert has used him a little.  I would not be afraid of using him.  I'll post the photo I have as soon as my daughter has time to do it for me.  I will be shocked if you don't like his kind.  Some have told me he was a better breeding bull than Perfect Count.  I have semen on both, maybe some day I can find out for sure. 

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #140 on: February 06, 2020, 10:28:09 AM »
Youre right- several of us do have photos.  Maybe more so than flat sided is how shallow his chest floor is.  This phenotype is nothing like the what I find desirable in the leader lines.

Offline oakview

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #141 on: February 06, 2020, 10:40:15 AM »
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.  I have had tons of Leader line cattle over the years.  None of them approached the top and rear quarter shown by the photo of Royal Commando.

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #142 on: February 06, 2020, 10:55:26 AM »
Pretty is as pretty does.  And shallow chested bulls in my experience are much harder doing than the deep chested maternal types. 

Top and rear quarter.   Both terminal trait characteristics.   If I prioritized terminal trait characteristics, Charolais would likely be my breed of choice instead.

Offline librarian

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #143 on: February 06, 2020, 03:08:40 PM »
White bull reminds me a lot of a white ball dee royal commando son that was in the Oklahoma shorthorn sale 2017ish.   Same type as royal commando himself. To me that design appears exceptionally flat sided but the outcome may surprise me when crosses on some squattier type cows. 
I like a lot of these old bulls - wish those with access to semen on these bulls would breed them to native beef cows rather than the milking Shorthorns.  Anyone know of anyone doing this?
Lincoln Red might be the only beef type Native genetics around. Looking at that old photo of Perfect Countt made me wonder if there is any Lincoln Red in him.
I think the beef looking type Shorthorn cow you are talking about can be acquired by using Minn Max Leader semen on a good dual type Native cow  or any un-ruined Shorthorn cow. Max is scurred. I don't know why, but Max throws a consistently wide backed and wide, long hipped 1100 lb cow that anyone would want to own. I always look for bulls out of Max daughters. His daughters  are short and easy to pick out of a group of maternally related animals.
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #144 on: February 06, 2020, 04:40:58 PM »
Bad uphill picture of a Coming 3 year old whos been Out on cows and hay again  after 2 months-New EPDS are very good including below 0 BWS calves all are consistent with those EPDS other than one which is as good as it gets-One of the better Commercial Shorthorn bulls available.No Trump.No Canadian  ( But Hed sure compliment them in type),No Native till way way back when they were around the first time HOT COMMODITYx WILDSIDE DAM x 60 years of  all performance-Jungels Byland, Lauer, Tiemans etc=PS Wildside was one of the longest lived walking bulls EVER-and a very llegit EZ calver as well-100 plus year old herd,who have performance tested since it was initated  O0
« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 06:59:28 PM by mark tenenbaum »

Offline librarian

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #145 on: January 12, 2021, 11:40:15 AM »
Well, its  a year later and I seem to have walked backwards into this. The bull I recently bought carries the F94L myostatin gene variant. Funny how pedigrees for progeny show genetic information not obvious in the pedigree of the parent animal.
As long as the phenotype is not extreme, Im going to view F94L heterozygosity as a positive thing for beef production. Isnt this the variant that has made Speckle Park such a carcass quality success?
I visually selected for it by family...just didnt know it by DNA test. Odd thing is I thought I was selecting for type by maternal family.
So, based on all that research I did last year, my question is about how brown fat is stored in muscle and if this fat could possibly be in some form that is less visible do to smaller droplet size. I can understand that meat with more muscle fibers per unit area would be more tender. Ive even heard of old style shorthorn beef being fine textured. But, for me soft fat is where its at for Omega 3 nutrition and grass finished flavor. I am accustomed to fat distributed in very small flecks in Galloway beef...so Im not under the illusion that highly visible marbling is the only form of intramuscular fat. Can anyone help me sort out if myostatin inhibition, by reducing white fat storage, might increase liquid fat between muscle cells?
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Offline librarian

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #146 on: January 12, 2021, 11:44:39 AM »
I was mistaken about the myostatin variant in Speckle Park, its nt821.
 There are a number of myostatin genes in cattle, which are responsible for expressing more/extra muscle growth, with nt821 being most relevant in the Speckle Park breed. https://jadspecklepark.com.au/faqs/
This a disruptive variant and the one found in Angus. This makes perfect sense as Canadian Angus are such a crucial part of Speckle Park foundation genetics.
This is interesting.. In Aberdeen-Angus cattle Nt821 is a disruptive mutation of the Myostatin gene. It is the breeds most common gene, and is also found in Galloway, Piedmontese and Limousin cattle.
There are six myostatin mutations, including Q204 found in Charolais, and F94L predominately found in Limousins. The Aberdeen-Angus Society has identified F94L in a small number of animals.
Dr McAuley continued: Research is on going in ROI, but approximately one third of all beef calves born in Northern Ireland are bred from a sire carrying the double muscle gene. https://www.aberdeen-angus.co.uk/news-and-features/myostatin-genes-explained-at-aberdeen-angus-agm/
« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 12:23:35 PM by librarian »
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Offline librarian

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #147 on: January 12, 2021, 12:26:46 PM »
Speckle Park looks to be stacking myostatin and leptin mutations.
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Offline Boreal

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #148 on: January 12, 2021, 01:30:47 PM »
I was mistaken about the myostatin variant in Speckle Park, its nt821.
 There are a number of myostatin genes in cattle, which are responsible for expressing more/extra muscle growth, with nt821 being most relevant in the Speckle Park breed. https://jadspecklepark.com.au/faqs/
This a disruptive variant and the one found in Angus. This makes perfect sense as Canadian Angus are such a crucial part of Speckle Park foundation genetics.
This is interesting.. In Aberdeen-Angus cattle Nt821 is a disruptive mutation of the Myostatin gene. It is the breeds most common gene, and is also found in Galloway, Piedmontese and Limousin cattle.
There are six myostatin mutations, including Q204 found in Charolais, and F94L predominately found in Limousins. The Aberdeen-Angus Society has identified F94L in a small number of animals.
Dr McAuley continued: Research is on going in ROI, but approximately one third of all beef calves born in Northern Ireland are bred from a sire carrying the double muscle gene. https://www.aberdeen-angus.co.uk/news-and-features/myostatin-genes-explained-at-aberdeen-angus-agm/


I had a Galloway bull with nt821. His daughters certainly carry more muscle shape - especially in the hind quarter. They are a little harder calving, however, and I had some wrecks breeding him to other Galloway that I suspect were positive - before I knew about the mutations. I wont say Ill never use an nt821 bull again, but Ill certainly be real cautious about it now.

Offline librarian

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #149 on: January 12, 2021, 02:51:30 PM »
Boreal, nt821 sounds undesirable to me. Anecdotally, Petes Top Gain might have carried it.
Im still trying to figure out if F94L might be a cold climate adaptation. This is a good site, despite the word miniature in the title. I guess miniature cattle are a perfect storm for defects, so they need good information. Anyway, the Galloway variant is one of the disruptive ones Six myostatin variants are disruptive mutations, which cause the "double-muscling" effect results from enlarged muscle cells. Three are missense mutations, which increase muscularity due to the animal having more muscle cells.
http://www.miniature-cattle.com/article.dm.htm
« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 02:59:48 PM by librarian »
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

 

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