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muleman

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I have a smoke yellow jacket X MA/AN. What is the % probability to get smoke colored calves from monopoly? We have always had black with some white until I got an orange colored cow. We have gotten every color from her. Please help me out on this smokie deal, Thanks.
 

Bradenh

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From how I understand it is if the cow is pink nosed she generally will always throw a diluted color (non black) calf.

And if her nose is grey or black she doesn't carry the diluter gene the same way and she will throw you some black hided cattle

So it depends on how smokey she really is, but looking at her pedigree id say she's going to throw black on monopoly and if you want a diluter color calf your best bet is breeding her to a pink nosed bull

That may be all wrong but from my limited experience that's how I understood it
 

Barry Farms

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Show stopper 95 said:
frostback said:
A Smoke X Monopoly
25% Homo black
25% hetro blanck
25% orange
25% smoke

Does that apply if the calf is 1/8 Charolais?

You are correct Frostback. Show stopper 95 you will get certain colors from a cow/bull based off of the genes it has for color, regardless of %'s or breed. there are homo black pb charolais bulls.............
 

HGC

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frostback said:
A Smoke X Monopoly
25% Homo black
25% hetro blanck
25% orange
25% smoke

I'm going to disagree with this a little.  Yellow jacket is orange, which means he has 2 red genes and a diluter gene, therefore your heifer does have a red gene.  The diluter gene and black/red gene are independent of each other.  Your heifer is smoke, so she is heterozygous black.  Monopoly is also heterozygous black.

Diluter gene aside you should get:

25% Homo Black
50% Hetero Black
25% Red

The diluter gene should be given to half of these combinations.  Therefore the resulting color probabilities should be:

37.5% Smoke
37.5% Black
12.5% Orange
12.5% Red

Hope this helps
 

Mainevent

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Decatur Texas
Not to derail this thread but I have a solid white Shorthorn cow, pink nose, no skin pigment. I bred her to monopoly, what color possibilities are there with this mating?
 

frostback

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Mainevent said:
Not to derail this thread but I have a solid white Shorthorn cow, pink nose, no skin pigment. I bred her to monopoly, what color possibilities are there with this mating?

50% red roan
50% blue(black)roan
The white gene in the shorthorns are different then the diluter gene in the Chars.
 

Mainevent

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Gotcha, is there any chance I get a white again? Her first calf was out of Capiche and she came out white haired with skin pigment.
 

frostback

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No the bull would need to have a white gene also. So a roan or white bull to make that. Capiche is roan so there ya go.
 

Barry Farms

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HGC said:
frostback said:
A Smoke X Monopoly
25% Homo black
25% hetro blanck
25% orange
25% smoke

I'm going to disagree with this a little.  Yellow jacket is orange, which means he has 2 red genes and a diluter gene, therefore your heifer does have a red gene.  The diluter gene and black/red gene are independent of each other.  Your heifer is smoke, so she is heterozygous black.  Monopoly is also heterozygous black.

Diluter gene aside you should get:

25% Homo Black
50% Hetero Black
25% Red

The diluter gene should be given to half of these combinations.  Therefore the resulting color probabilities should be:

37.5% Smoke
37.5% Black
12.5% Orange
12.5% Red

Hope this helps

No, an animal only has 2 copies of any given gene so it is impossible that Yellow Jacket has all of 2 red genes and a dilutor gene
 

Cardinal_Crest_Shorthorns

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No, an animal only has 2 copies of any given gene so it is impossible that Yellow Jacket has all of 2 red genes and a dilution gene
[/quote]

I'm not sure, but I take it that the alleles coding for red and black are separate genes entirely than the dilution gene? meaning it would be possible to have combination of red or black and then separately one or two copies of the dilution gene?
 

GONEWEST

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Cardinal_Crest_Shorthorns said:
No, an animal only has 2 copies of any given gene so it is impossible that Yellow Jacket has all of 2 red genes and a dilution gene

I'm not sure, but I take it that the alleles coding for red and black are separate genes entirely than the dilution gene? meaning it would be possible to have combination of red or black and then separately one or two copies of the dilution gene?
[/quote]

Yes, dilution and color completely separate. i.e. A homozygous black (2 black genes) + a dilution gene will get you a smoke. - dilution you get a black.
 

leanbeef

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It's kinda funny how many people sound like they know exactly what they're talking about and yet they don't. And I don't mean that to sound condescending, but if you don't know, maybe say you're not sure instead of sounding like an expert. Some of the feedback is correct (HCG, Cardinal, Gonewest)... Some of the other posts contain some statements that are correct, but the post may not be completely accurate. Some of the statements that have been made are just wrong.

Basic color genes are black (dominant), red (recessive), and white, which is what you find in white or roan Shorthorns...not Charolais. A white Shorthorn is white; roan coloring is an example of shared dominance...neither gene is completely dominant, and so both are expressed...some white hairs and some black or red hairs. The dilution gene that Charolais are known for is a color modifier, not a color. Charolais are not genetically "white" but homozygous for the dilution gene which is dominant over non dilution. When you cross a Charolais with an Angus, you get smoke because black is dominant over red (which Charolais have) and dilution is dominant over non diluter. A smoky colored animal, regardless of breed make up, has at least one gene for black and carries a dilution gene, diluting black color to gray. That animal may be either heterozygous or homozygous for the black gene and still be gray, meaning it may or may not have a red gene. If it has one red or yellow parent, you know it is heterozygous black (one red gene) because red is recessive. Since there's no distinguishing line that separates red or "orange" cattle like the line between black and gray, you can't necessarily look at a red animal and know whether or not it carries a diluter gene. If a red animal has two black parents or two non diluted parents, it's non diluted. There are plenty of non diluted "orange" cattle that have two black parents. In general, though, if you're not sure, typically the lighter the shade, the more probable the chance that a red animal does carry a dilution gene, especially when you get into a color you would consider "yellow" and not red. If this is confusing, think about the variance in shades of red in the Hereford population which does NOT have a dilution gene.

To answer your original question, I think HCG nailed it for you. Wild type color alleles and color patterns are what makes the whole thing fun!
 

vanridge

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Are Simmies known to be diluters? The calf I have pictured here is the wildest colored calf we have ever had. The Grand dam is a commercial shorthorn, who we think has a bit of Simmental in her blood. We bred her to our black angus bull and got a dark grey curly haired heifer out of her. We kept that heifer and bred her to our red roan shorthorn bull and this is the result. The shorthorn bull we use has been throwing mostly red calves, sometimes with bit of roaning to them. (depending on the dam's breed combo) Either way, she's a cute little thing!
 

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leanbeef

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Yes...most of the traditionally colored Simmenal cattle were diluters. The "dark gray curly hairs heifer" sounds like a rat tail...my guess is she has little to no switch on her tail. That's a condition that you occasionally get with the combination of the diluter gene & the black gene...not something the feedlot guys typically like. But it doesn't keep one from making a good cow!

I can't tell if you little roan calf here is black or chocolate, but it's pretty! I think good cattle are pretty regardless of what color they are, and color patterns like this just make one interesting and unique. I wouldn't have expected anything less "interesting" with that combination of breeds!
 

vanridge

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Yup, she is a "rat tail" but she comes from one of our better cows and we took a chance that she wouldn't pass that on to her offspring. She is structurally a very correct cow and she has developed a pretty decent udder.  The calf is a dark dark chocolate. We'll see how she grows. So far the sire of this calf has given us some really nice replacement heifers. (thumbsup)
 

Barry Farms

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Thanks lean beef, I never knew that the Dilutor gene was a completely different allele than was red, white or black. Learn something every day!
 

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