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Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Hill Haven Fire Storm 28C
« Reply #60 on: January 18, 2019, 06:57:25 PM »
1 How many of the breeders that used him are in the US IT IS A GIVEN THE THE COW IS AT LEAST 50% OF THE EQUATION-If anything the "bashing" is not only about him-but trying to recognize a distinct problem in US Shorthorns that needs to be addressed CALVING PROBLEMS-and pronto if the average purebred small breeder is going to sell a bull at all. CE isnt just about wieght-it can be the shape of the calf, nutrition a dominent gene per se  from a huge BW animal coming to fore a from few generations backetc: I MEAN WHO DONT KNOW THAT? That is why bulls like Hot Commodity-the  not clean and  clean Jazz Sons , Jazz himslf, the Angus in the background of the Jungels-Loving bulls, the Waukaru linebred (in some cases) deals the Red Reward Red Demand genetics available to the PEASANTS,have been coming into fashion for the last AT LEAST 10 years. Yea Yea-Im not listing everyone-but my hats off to all-BECAUSE-they honestly recognize a very distinct LIMITATION which has scaired many people away down here in many cases. 2-Nobody is trying to be an EPD expert from what I see on this thread-its about the LACK OF TRUE ACCURACY stemming from calving reports-ITS THERE PLAIN AND SIMPLE,-I have to say-Genomics are going to be a game changer of sorts-even if its in a small way.I said in the other thread-This thread is really about the US Market -US Cattle-and what is going on HERE. No Shorthorn Breeders that I know of down here have a hunky dunkle international fan club and just cant keep thier genetics on the shelf due to the insatiable demand of thier happy customers who do not have a care in the world-Different place different issues CERTAINLY DIFFERENT MODES OF ACCEPTANCE O0
« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 07:02:22 PM by mark tenenbaum »

Offline kiblercattle

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Re: Hill Haven Fire Storm 28C
« Reply #61 on: January 18, 2019, 09:12:08 PM »
Not bashing the bull and agrguing that he's a cow killer but you can't argue that genetically his calves will be on the heavier end of the bw spectrum. My dad is running 7 sonny grandsons that are bred similar to firestorm on predominately angus/Hereford commercial cows. There's 800 cows and the rest get angus bulls. The cows are run out on dry grass for 9 months of the year so they are in moderate condition when they calve. Cows are calved turned out on range so they are not pampered or even checked regularly. But when checked their calves are obviously on the larger side( 90-100+ lb not uncommon)on of all the calves born by a good margin not that they are a problem but assuming that the cows were in great condition the calves should theoretically be larger. This is being observed over a course of 5 calf crops (750-850 calves) so it's not gathered from some guy that has 10 calves a year out of a bull that they picked out cows with traits to offset the bulls negative qualities or vice versa. IMO he's a bull that for most commercial guys that there is not enough benefit from the high bw potential to be relevant and not picking on him but there are lots of shorthorn bulls that fit this category.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 09:21:06 PM by kiblercattle »

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Hill Haven Fire Storm 28C
« Reply #62 on: January 19, 2019, 07:55:50 PM »
I agree and appreciate your feedback-There are also alot of good usefull bulls coming available that will be in some cases easier calving than alot of the others including the Angus If it ever gets down to it-Im glad to help you find some-An operation like yours is real world and I"d love to see what the cattle-calves look like-and there are Shorthorns out there that will work-and they ARE NOT THE FRAIL UNATTRACTIVE HARD DOING LOOKING KIND There is alot to be said for rotating the British Breeds-especially if you like to eat really good beef O0
« Last Edit: January 19, 2019, 08:44:55 PM by mark tenenbaum »

 

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