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Offline lowann

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Re: Horse Slaughter facilities continued
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2009, 04:59:27 PM »
I can understand they can be a nuisance, but I can not comprehend sending heavily pregnant mares, and newborn foals to slaughter. 

so if it wasn't allowed, and you had to wait, remove the studs so reproduction could not occur, wait 6-8 months, then get rid of them. 

after that, you are ok with removing them?


That in itself would be a huge undertaking. Chasing herds, catching all the studs. Once again we are talking about money being spent at taxpayers expense.
I guess being a woman, and have a passion for horses, have had it all my life, my mind tells me one thing, my heart another.
There just has to be a better solution for all involved, including the horses.
Everything that has been tried so far hasn't worked. Cost too much because of the BLM waste.
Entire herds are chased for anywhere up to 30 miles to be rounded up by helicopters, by the BLM.There are many videos documenting this and the aftermaths. Many young ones are  are stampeded, foals are run to exhaustion trying to keep up with their Mothers. Is this right? Is this any answer?

Offline knabe

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Re: Horse Slaughter facilities continued
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2009, 05:10:02 PM »
good points iowan.

question was from a perspective of removing obstacles and compromising.  if that obstacle was removed for whatever reason, would they still oppose?

in other words, people keep adding restrictions after an agreement has been made, similar to the michael vick thread.

i say if people want the horses, go in and get them, then the taxpayer will get rid of them.

the goal, from my perspective, is to not allow this to be a "wild" horse park.  it's not like these are Przewalski's horses.  yes, there are some kiger's, but they are the exception.  they should be easy to spot, remove.  have a selection committee.  something besides increasing numbers.

Offline GoWyo

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Re: Horse Slaughter facilities continued
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2009, 05:16:54 PM »
BLM has pretty tight restrictions on time of year horses can be gathered.  They have to be gathered a month or two before foaling season and then no gathers until late in the summer after foals are big enough to run.  The seldom make long runs on the gathers.  BLM builds the traps close to where the horses are ranging and then makes the gather.  It is one of the few things BLM is actually good at doing.  The gathers are not so tough -- it is what to do with the inventory.  That just goes up because feral horses will increase their population by 20% per year given lack of predators.  Unlike cattle and sheep, for which management is dictated by the terms and conditions of the grazing permit, feral horses receive little management.  Therefore they stomp out water holes, overgraze certain areas, adversely impact wildlife and eventually exceed the carrying capacity of the land -- then it looks like a 2-acre suburban lot with 6 horses turned out all the time -- nothing but turds and weeds.  However, being an American icon, we dare not send them to slaughter.  Better to warehouse them, and as the U.S. House of Rep just passed, expand their area by millions of acres, tell ranchers to go to Hell and increase the ultimate problem by a factor of 1000.

I do know a veterinarian who is working on the feral horse issue and BLM is looking at drugs for birth control for mares -- have been dealing with logistics of delivery (darts or round up and process) and efficacy (so far only lasts a year or two).  Spaying is too expensive and not an option.  Gelding the studs is ineffective because so long as there is one running around, even if young, they seem to get the job done over a wide range.  It is really a nightmare that is probably not going to get better for anyone who uses BLM land for pasture.
May you always have cows around . . . ~ Corb Lund

Stop the violins -- visualize whirled peas

Offline lowann

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Re: Horse Slaughter facilities continued
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2009, 07:48:01 PM »
good points iowan.

question was from a perspective of removing obstacles and compromising.  if that obstacle was removed for whatever reason, would they still oppose?

in other words, people keep adding restrictions after an agreement has been made, similar to the michael vick thread.

i say if people want the horses, go in and get them, then the taxpayer will get rid of them.

the goal, from my perspective, is to not allow this to be a "wild" horse park.  it's not like these are Przewalski's horses.  yes, there are some kiger's, but they are the exception.  they should be easy to spot, remove.  have a selection committee.  something besides increasing numbers.

You are right, the Keigers should be very easy to spot, and would be a terrible loss if exterminated.
From what I understand, it isn't that easy to get a Mustang. You can apply, then wait, and wait, to hear nothing from the BLM, while they have 30,000 wild horses penned up, and have been penned up for a long time..
Inexcusable.
Several of my friends have applied for adoption, and this has been their experience with the BLM adoption program.
Who is to blame for this??
Way to much red tape, and power for the BLM, I think.
And, more money being spent to feed, and care for these "penned up" wild horses, by us taxpayers!

Offline knabe

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Re: Horse Slaughter facilities continued
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2009, 08:21:50 PM »
i don't really know how hard it is to get one, but we had some rental neighbors and they got one.  never rode it, never haltered it, never did anything other than survive the one or two inspections they had.

they gave it away to my neighbors who have done nothing with it either cause he fell off twice on a henny he was trying to break, breaking his collar bone once.  then, he was walking the mustang, it spooked, knocked him down and stepped on his lower leg causing a compound fracture. 

it's never had a saddle on it.  it's sweet as can be.

i can't complain too much.  i have a horse i used to ride a lot, but don't much anymore.

would like the option of not having to have to PAY to get rid of it down the road since i'm going to keep her.

getting paid to get rid of a horse is a good incentive.  charging people only exacerbates the problem as they just won't do it.

typical solution.

Offline beefy

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Re: Horse Slaughter facilities continued
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2009, 10:16:09 PM »
it must be diffrent where i am at in utah. they have a horse and burro auction and adoption 10 miles from my location and out of 42 horses only 7 got an opening bid of $125. the rest were loaded back up and sent to the the taxpayers feedlot .        <cowboy>

Offline knabe

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Re: Horse Slaughter facilities continued
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2009, 11:42:54 PM »
every social welfare government program is mostly run the same way.

Offline bart22

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Re: Horse Slaughter facilities continued
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2009, 07:17:00 AM »
What i don't get is people saying horses are slaughtered INHUMANELY,they are slaughtered exactly the same way cattle are killed,no one I love cattle!es about the way cattle are slaughtered.It is sad to see hoses slaughtered but if you don't we will have so many USELESS animals wandering around and competing for food,and i think that is INHUMANE.

This is what scares me about this issue. If PETA and animal rights actavists had the power to get the slaughter of horses stopped in most places and our elected officials are dumb enough to go along with it, then how long until they try to stop the slaughter of all livestock? Even with all of the negatives this horse thing has brought out (wasted tax payer money, wasted land, ect.) our legislators and most of the public are still in favor of this program. This stuff worries me.     

Offline lowann

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Re: Horse Slaughter facilities continued
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2009, 10:47:18 AM »
every social welfare government program is mostly run the same way.
You are right about that. Our government sure knows how to spend, spend, spend, and nothing in return!!!

Offline knabe

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Offline herfluvr

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Re: Horse Slaughter facilities continued
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2011, 04:17:56 PM »
Pull up a chair cattle people.  This is a horse girl.  Have had them close to half a century and I am FOR the HUMANE REGULATED slaughter in this country.  Here is why:

I do not wish for any animal to have to travel  in tight quarters to be slaughtered for too long a distance.  Right now, it is not uncommon for these horses to travel up to 20 hours with no stops to get north or south of this country to get to what might or might not be a humane quick ending. 
We need at least 4 slaughterhouses across this nation so we can eliminate this argument.
Horse meat is eaten in more countries than we know.  If it is valuable the dumbass government should see through humane treatment and slaughter there is profit to be made here.  I know...government??profit???  Hard to put those two words together

If people are worried about stealing, we are so technically advanced why not put a chip in their horse.  Trackable should they end up by mistake at a facility and an alert has come up for that horse, it can be returned.  You could even track this horse through it's lifetime of owners, vets, sales.  Duh!   You want a saleable product that you can charge a premium for, then be able to show where it came from.

Here is a hairy one.  Drugs.  You cattle people think you use drugs?  My cattle friends ask me what we are using for soundness issues and to keep them calm.  Hm mm, I wouldn't eat a show horse if I was near death cause it is probably gonna kill me.  No, they don't all do it but I wouldn't take the chance.  Bite, ace, the heart drug they use to keep them slow, insulin...get the picture?

As for the BLM.  It is a GOVERMENT RUN AGENCY!  Enough said

I am for preserving the wild horse in a venue that all can live with.  I DO NOT believe any person tr yin to make an honest living on THEIR land should have to put up with any nuisance animal.  Wild horse included.

Now we have to consider the drug companies that harvest pregnant mare urine to make Premarin.  These mares stand in tie stalls for their pregnancy and are hooked up to a bag that collects the urine.  The colts are then either killed or sold.  Talk about creating a a product from the misery and probably death of animals!  For you ladies out there that must have the natural hormone in your replacement therapy, it really sucks that it has to come from this method.  These colts are pretty much worthless.  So how does the government going to handle this?  For those that don't want the BLM horses run to death, what do you do with a company that the byproduct of their business is a junk foal?  That foal is "dead"before it even is born.  The mare is re bred on foal heat-9 days after foaling- so she can return to the line.

And who votes on this?  The people we have in government that most live in the most populated states on the east and west coasts who I bet have never had an ounce of **** on their designer shoes.  You guys in between don't have enough people to garner the votes in Washington to make a difference.  How fair is that? 

To the beef growers, horses helped start this industry back in the early days and continue to move cattle in many places.  Horses DO help you and probably always will have a place on a working cattle ranch. 

As for PETA and HSUS, you bet they will be looking at the next industry to meddle in.  They have succeeded in the veal barns.  Chicken ranchers have long been a target.  So  get ready.  If we don't all take a proactive stance to them, their deep pockets can and will make a huge difference in the profits of the beef farmer.  By shutting down the slaughter houses in the US we horse people have nothing to base the bottom of our industry on.  Go check out your local sale barn, you can bring a horse home for nothing.

So open a well run slaughterhouse in 4 areas of the US.  We need them.  There is no place to sent the rogue horse.  There is no alternative for the person who cannot feed or care for the animal.  Neglect of any animal is never the way to go.  And yes, there are horses being slaughtered for their meat illegally.  It is not urban legend.  Horses dropped at state parks.  True.  Trailers are now checked for the number going in and the number going out in the trailer. 

So this horse girl and pretty much all the people I know are FOR the slaughter of horses.  I am FOR the regulation of breeding.  Mares and Studs should earn the right to be bred and the associations should be aware that foal numbers don't mean they are breeding the best for the future.

Joan

Offline firesweepranch

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Re: Horse Slaughter facilities continued
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2011, 05:06:06 PM »
Pull up a chair cattle people.  This is a horse girl.  Have had them close to half a century and I am FOR the HUMANE REGULATED slaughter in this country.  Here is why:

Joan
I TOTALLY agree Joan! Well said. We have owned and shown horses for 40 years, and it KILLED the horse market when the slaughter facilities closed down. Now, you can not take your horse to an auction without having to pay money to get rid of them. You can not GIVE them away, these are the "average" horses that don't quiet make it in the big show industry, but are better than the nags and lame psycho ones that are out there. If someone else wants to eat horse meat, I am all for it! Make money, instead of losing it!
Well said, well said!

Kris
God, family, and Simmental cattle;  that's what makes life worth living!

Offline jaimiediamond

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Re: Horse Slaughter facilities continued
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2011, 03:26:52 PM »
I have been PRO horse slaughter since I was 12.  Every young girl has a moment where they want to make that difference and mine was when I  bought the two fillies at an auction for the grand total of $500.  At this sale I learnt a few hard lessons about life, this person had bred these horses (10 stallions running with a band of 500 mares) these horses weren't fed or looked after in any respect.  The fillies I bought were sold as 3 year olds but turned out to be a yearling and probably a 2 year old. After the sale one of my fillies (assumed 2 year old) had literally ripped her side open exposing 7 ribs and parts of the abdominal wall, no vet could get near this filly to euthanize her so our next best option was to take her to the slaughter house for what is deemed a mercy kill as per veterinary recommendation.

While at the plant I was looking through the feed lot pens for a animal to replace the filly I hadn't been able to save, and out of the 1000s of horses I saw that day I didn't see one horse that was salvageable.  There were broken thoroughbreds, standardbreds, ancient horses of various breed types, horses of dubious natural soundness, and of course the crazies.  I also couldn't help but notice that they weren't crowded in their pens had free choice feed and water, so really not as bad a end as some of the alternatives.

Another important point for Canada is recently our PMU barns became illegal, leaving a surplus of mares on the market, not to mention that in Alberta our race track was closed and the one that was supposed to open was delayed by now 5 years (it still isn't finished) on top of the rising prices of hay due to poor crops. If there wasn't slaughter that would leave a lot of unwanted  horses in bad situations such as starving or being abandoned. 

« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 03:27:40 PM by jaimiediamond »

Offline PaFFA Proud

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Re: Horse Slaughter facilities continued
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2011, 03:32:50 PM »
I agree too with Joan <beer> imo wild horses are like deer....they run through fences, raise insurance on cars, damage hard worked fields. Not too many people complain about deer hunting...but when you mention horse slaughter everyone freaks. Most of these wild horses are too crazy to work with and dangerous to have around. Its not just wild horses as pointed out earlier...thank the show industry, people over work these horses, push them too hard, breed irresponsibly, and buy without thinking. Our local auction has gotten soo bad no one is buyiing because most of the horses are so screwed up mentally or physically. I bought one pony that was dead broke for kids only to get her home and later that night was tearing our barn apart..the next month she was back due to bending a stock gate all the way down and about landed on my 1 yr old daughter...i was ticked to get $25 off of her but was glad to have her out. Also with our sale barn is being called horse mourge there are horses coming in sick and and close to dying because people are more than willing to pay a little fee then to pay a vet to put them down and then to dispose of the body...people are struggling to make ends meet and putting down a horse and disposing is out of the question. Also the race horse industry is killing"average horse" prices by breeding too much, but thats a whole story its self. Also IMO american horses need to be chipped or freeze branded like in other countries like england to make sure of ownership and numbers in a state and country. I used to be big into horses but there is just no money in it, I am a responsible horse owner..ive never bred my mares, over worked them, they have always have had vet and farrier care. For my 2 show horses..ive found permenant homes at PSU equestrian team and my mare I have now is 22 years young and is in excellent health that i have had since she was 10...so I am a example of what many other people that own horses need to be..commitment is a must with horses...not just cause you loose one show you sell it right away! 8)
Brittany

Offline knabe

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Re: Horse Slaughter facilities continued
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2013, 11:41:13 PM »
horse slaughter update

http://reason.com/archives/2013/05/11/the-case-for-legalizing-horse-meat

there are over 1 million abortions each year and the left hates any attempt at regulation on that but continues to complain about horse slaughter.

way to be consistent.  i guess the line to draw is that its ok to kill human life by the millions, but not horses.

amazing how both the left and the right hate regulation of any kind on specific issues but can't seem to understand that minimal regulation is the key to the velocity of money and increased opportunity for all segments of the economy. 

 

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