Houston livestock show

johnwayne · Mar 17, 2012

Has anyone stopped to take a look at what the Houston Livestock show is doing? The take home money or guarantee money, is only a small percentage of the sales price if they are lucky enough to make the sale!! This year, out of the 460,000.00, there is guarantee money of 75000.00 that is only 16.3% Does this sound far? I know they are funding scholarships but does it sound fare to y'all that out of this 460000 this young man and his family only get to take home 16.3 percent?
I feel and let me stress this point. I feel, that the HLSR is keeping a lot more money than is needed to fund these scholarships and everything else.
Another example. If you have a placing calf, that is 4th or lower, and make the sale you are only guaranteed 2250.00. We spent a week there in a motel, 1091.00 dollars, food 500.00 for a family of 4. gas, 250.00. that is 1841.00 just for your stay, not counting your expenses for the animal and feed!! Fair I think Not.
I would like to see the percentage of scholarships our kids get from participating at this show,versus the amount of scholarships that non ag kids get for just being there? They take a lot for granted, namely those of us that spend our time and money there.
Just saying

Bradenh · Mar 17, 2012

we just go to ft worth instead and make 0$ on the gamble ;D

Ms Ray · Mar 17, 2012

don't know anything about this except from your post, if it is guaranteed money wouldn't that mean the show is going to give them that if no one buys the animals for more money. Meaning that would be the least amount the child could get, but could get more?

Bradenh · Mar 17, 2012

houston has slotted sale holes

correct me if im wrong but its along the lines of
champ is 75k
reserve is like 50?
breed champs are 12k
class winners are 6

may be wrong but from memory i think those are the numbers, on the class and breed the kid gets no more, no less even if the calf sells for a million bucks

and the most the champ can have is 75

chambero · Mar 17, 2012

This is the way its been since 93. My biggest issue is the money for lower placing calves that hasnt kept up with inflation of just feed. However, if you are in it to make money, you are in the wrong business. I'd just like to lose a little less. Also keep in mind - as I had to be reminded - they sell a lot more calves than any other major.

johnwayne · Mar 17, 2012

that is a good point, on the animals, But I think the percentage they give back and pay out is very low, the guerantee is low as a percentage, max the champ could get is 76. if all the stars line up. We have a family friend that placed 3rd sold calf for 5500, but only got to take home 3000 that is the part that upsets me. they are fund raising off our hard work and paying that much back

KSanburg · Mar 17, 2012

Maybe Obama took a lesson from them, sounds like redistribution of wealth to me.

twistedhshowstock · Mar 17, 2012

I think the theory behind what they are doing is great. What I think has failed is the management of it. Like Chambero said they instituted this policy in 1993. The theory behind putting in a slotted sale was that they would be able to fund scholarships, their #1 in the county(in my opinion) calf scramble program, and be able to guarantee those lower placing animals that money. I have never actually been to a sale in Houston, but if I am not mistaken only the top 4 in each class go to through the sale, the others just go on a truck and are guaranteed that money. I know that several 20 yrs ago $2250 was probably great for them, but now, that is barely market value. Like I said, I think they did a good thing when they instituted it, but over time the prices paid for the champions and the ones that go through the sale has gone up, because from my understanding the number of animals that actually go through the sale has gone down with this program. But nevertheless the prices for the champiions there has gotten astronomical. I think its a good program, but I think times have changed and they need to re-evaluate how much they are guarantiing the kids. With the mone brought in from the sale I dont see any reason why those lower end animals couldnt be bumped to at least $4k and why the champions shouldnt be guaranteed at least $100k, I mean I could be mistaken but its been a long time since the Champ brought less than $300k in the sale. The other thing is I think it would make it more profitable for them in the long run. I mean its a BIG show as it is, but just think how many people would show up if Breed champs were getting say $15k and the top prize was $100k.

bart · Mar 17, 2012

I think Whatburger is going to step up next year and up the antte! <rock>

johnwayne · Mar 17, 2012

TwistedshowStick great piont. It just makes feel like we are getting used to fund these sholarships and then not even a scholarship if you win You tell me who is benefiting from our investments. As for Whataburger. a Big Ha on that one Bert. They did not even have a sign on their Big New Fancy building in San Antonio this year.

KSanburg · Mar 18, 2012

twistedhshowstock said:
I think the theory behind what they are doing is great. What I think has failed is the management of it. Like Chambero said they instituted this policy in 1993. The theory behind putting in a slotted sale was that they would be able to fund scholarships, their #1 in the county(in my opinion) calf scramble program, and be able to guarantee those lower placing animals that money. I have never actually been to a sale in Houston, but if I am not mistaken only the top 4 in each class go to through the sale, the others just go on a truck and are guaranteed that money. I know that several 20 yrs ago $2250 was probably great for them, but now, that is barely market value. Like I said, I think they did a good thing when they instituted it, but over time the prices paid for the champions and the ones that go through the sale has gone up, because from my understanding the number of animals that actually go through the sale has gone down with this program. But nevertheless the prices for the champiions there has gotten astronomical. I think its a good program, but I think times have changed and they need to re-evaluate how much they are guarantiing the kids. With the mone brought in from the sale I dont see any reason why those lower end animals couldnt be bumped to at least $4k and why the champions shouldnt be guaranteed at least $100k, I mean I could be mistaken but its been a long time since the Champ brought less than $300k in the sale. The other thing is I think it would make it more profitable for them in the long run. I mean its a BIG show as it is, but just think how many people would show up if Breed champs were getting say $15k and the top prize was $100k.

I am not disagreeing with you Twisted, but here is the way I see it. The kid that has grand champ deserves at least enough money to put them through any school in the country that they may select so lets take Harvard for example; annual tuition is 40k and then 10k on top of that for room and board X 4 years that's $200k. I really don't care if the kid spends it at Harvard or not they did the work and deserve at least that much from the product that they produced.

I am glad that they offer tons of scholarships and give those people the opportunity to go to school, more power to them but the person that did the work need to benefit the greatest from their hard work. I would agree that the rest should get a very fair price as you indicated in your post.

chambero · Mar 18, 2012

I dont really like it, but here's the deal.

Houston is the best run stock show in the country. For those of you that havent been, you need to. Houston is one of the major metropolitan cities in the WORLD, and the show officials get the WHOLE city into it. There are literally thousands of volunteers running around doing everything from helping you park to whacking you with yard sticks to keep you away from steers walking to and from the ring. And who are these people - highly paid executives and their employees who have to pay lots of money and be on waiting lists to get to volunteer.

The money deal on steers is our own fault. It was the wild west down there in the 80s and early 90s before drug testing and everything else. And the show officials know darned well that money never went to the kids and if it did - those family's didnt need iy (as Mr Schroeder humorously recently pointed out).

If Houston paid $500K, you wouldnt believe what top end steer prices would be now. Consider it a "salary cap" for steer jocks.

Most of their scholarships do go to Houston area youth, but they give a ton to to 4-H and FFA. If your kid has good grades, they arent that hard to win. One helped pay my way thru college.

JSchroeder · Mar 18, 2012

If you are going to analyze it based on free market capitalism and what is actually earned, the only real gripe would be that the floor price was low and you don’t get your check in anything resembling a reasonable amount of time. Complaints beyond that are just whining that you want to be given more charity.

It’s not Houston that tells people to ‘invest’ what they do in their show steers. They tell you what they’re going to pay and they pay it. Nobody is being misled, the buyers know where their money goes and they pump more of it into Houston than any other show.

The people that show steers don’t “earn” that money any more than the kids that earn the scholarships. If you really want to get your hands on that money, earn one of the scholarships. As Chambero said, it’s really not that hard because they give out tons of it.

It’s not hurting entries either, they’ve got a solid 300-400 more than any other show in the nation. Just the difference is more than most shows even have show up. While others are asking why entries are down, Houston is holding strong and actually increased by 50 head this year.

I would tend to agree with others that it’s a bit of a shame all that money goes to non-ag kids. That is until I look at the roof over the barn, the facilities, and the army of volunteers and ask myself where that came from.

Frankly, if you’re doing it for the auction money, I’m going to have to question your intelligence.

edit: I just realized I made the same mistake. It's only happened once and I'm already feeling like people are entitled to $1.20+/lb.

heatherleblanc · Mar 19, 2012

I dont and CANT agree or disagree with anything said here because i dont know enough about it, but i just though I'd share something that might shed some light on how lucky i think these kids are, even to be walking away with 75K (more than what the average adult makes in an entire YEAR of work). I am 16, and I live in a small town in western Canada. At my local 4H show, the grand champion last year walked away with $3.50/lb, which worked out to about $4800 after paying sale fees. And i know that in comparison to Houston, our show is nothing, becuase it is so small, but from what I know, the highest a steer has ever earned for a kid (under 21) in canada was about $26000, which was last year, after he won nine grand champion titles, that 28k, was his total earnings (sale and prize monies). My point is just that to me, its CRAZY to see people thinking, "oh, all he got was $75000". But i completely understand that he worked his BUTT off day in and day out with that steer, and he sold for 460k (money that HE earned) and i agree, i dont think its fair that hes only going to get to see such a small portion of that. But anyways, i just thought id share that, to just show how different it is here.

fed_champions · Mar 19, 2012

Correct me if i am wrong, but im pretty sure the HLSR gives a million dollars in scholarships to the FFA, and a million dollars in scholarships to the 4-H each year

JSchroeder · Mar 19, 2012

and he sold for 460k (money that HE earned)

Again, no, he didn't. Analyzing and judging it based on the rules/logic of a regular auction leads to flawed conclusions because it's not actually a regular auction. He earned $75k, the amount the HLSR has been very clear that the grand champion steer is paid.

The buyers weren't bidding to buy the steer himself and in all likelihood will send him to the packer for floor price. The buyers knew where the money was going to go and they knew that every penny over $75,000 wasn't going to the grand champion.

Nobody was misled as to what is going on, the money over $75k was never earned by or belonged to the grand champion steer.

edit:I said in all likelihood but isn't it a requirement that that the breed champs and reserves get slaughtered for the carcass contest?

rackranch · Mar 19, 2012

I just wish they would allow add-on's. I can understand the way they run it but what I can't understand is why they don't allow us to add-on. If I have a young person from my county that I know has worked their butts off for years, and they end up in the 2,250 hole, why can't I add-on money to help them out?

???

heatherleblanc · Mar 19, 2012

Jeff_Schroeder said:
and he sold for 460k (money that HE earned)

Click to expand...

Again, no, he didn't. Analyzing and judging it based on the rules/logic of a regular auction leads to flawed conclusions because it's not actually a regular auction. He earned $75k, the amount the HLSR has been very clear that the grand champion steer is paid.

The buyers weren't bidding to buy the steer himself and in all likelihood will send him to the packer for floor price. The buyers knew where the money was going to go and they knew that every penny over $75,000 wasn't going to the grand champion.

Nobody was misled as to what is going on, the money over $75k was never earned by or belonged to the grand champion steer.

edit:I said in all likelihood but isn't it a requirement that that the breed champs and reserves get slaughtered for the carcass contest?

Okay, fare enough, like I said, I dont know much about it, and I was actually going to ask that, are the bidders completely aware that not all the money is going to the exhibiter.

twistedhshowstock · Mar 19, 2012

Like I said, I like the way the program runs and agree with why they did it that way. The amount of scholarship available through Houston and these programs is incredible. As was stated they instituted this program in '93 and the buyers have been well aware of where their money is going. I just think a lot has changed since '93 so I think they should revisit how much is guaranteed to each place before putting all that money into Scholarship. Heck I would even be ok with the champ staying at $75,000 as was said thats more than most adults make in a year and these are kids, and to those who said earlier that the winner out to get at least enough money to pay for college. The kids that win the steer show at Houston are more than likely going to end up with a ton in scholarship anyway, so college isnt that big of a concern. And for those who say that, what about the kid that has Supreme Heifer? Did they not work just as hard? They arent getting anything anywhere close to that, but nobody has complained about that. I agree with what was said earlier, these people get into these projects knowing exactly what the Champion gets and I think it is plenty of money, I just think they should revisit the lower end of it.

afhm · Mar 19, 2012

rackranch said:
I just wish they would allow add-on's. I can understand the way they run it but what I can't understand is why they don't allow us to add-on. If I have a young person from my county that I know has worked their butts off for years, and they end up in the 2,250 hole, why can't I add-on money to help them out?

???

Just send the money to the kid directly that way they will get it in a timely manner and not have to pay a commission on it.

Houston livestock show

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