How long to wait?

How long do YOU wait before pulling a calf?  What are your cues?

Friday night we had a heifer that was bred to Stetson, a CE Limousin bull, due Monday, start Pre labor around 6:30 or so.    She wasn't pushing hard  at any point.  Just kinda laying there in the stall with her tail out, occasionally her tail would not even be really out.  She was inside, which I kinda wonder if she had been in the pasture if we had even noticed her before 8:30.  At any rate, I palped at 9:30 when there hadn't been much progress and could tell it was a small calf and lined up right.  Feet were six inches back or so with nose right there behind them, calf was squirmy alive......  An hour later still no real progress, heifer still not really pushing. So we pulled, as I was hooking calf up, heifer started pushing, made quick progress but then stopped pushing so we went ahead and pulled.

68 pound heifer calf, in no way should have had to be pulled if the heifer had actually tried.    Hard to say we were wrong in pulling considering with the weather we had and are having we have a live calf in the shed, but I kinda feel like if we had left her alone she would have had it when ever she decided to push.    Thought about giving her some oxytocin to make her push, but we didn't have any on hand and weren't gonna bother the vet at ten on Friday night without NEEDING to.  I hate that we pulled the calf, heifer is plenty big enough and pelvis wise to have had it on her own, but she was four hours in and it was eleven by the time we got the calf pulled, and at the end of the day.  Live calf.....

Good work! An alive calf is the most important but like you, after 4 hours, I would have been elbow deep.  I've seen cows in labor all day and finally calve but if you're like me, and you see one in labor w/ no progress, go ahead and pull the calf so you can get back to whatever it is you had planned prior to the situation.  My grandpa is the worst about this: he will stand out there for HOURS waiting on one to calve.

That heifer sounds like a good candidate for the sale barn.  With that being said, when you register the calf, are you going to report a "assisted birth" or "no assistance"?  It should be reported as a pulled calf.

Heifers - As long as they are making progress, I leave them alone up till 3 hours. If the calf isn't out in 3 hours, I assist.
Cows - I give them 1 hour before I "investigate". I make sure it is not backwards, upside down, etc. If it is presented correctly, I give them another hour. If not out in that time, I assist.

Is my way "right" and every other way is wrong? Doubtful, but it has worked for me.  When I have not followed my own advice (listened to someone else instead of myself) I end up with a dead calf.  And when I register the calves - If I have to touch it during delivery, it is recorded as an "assisted delivery", no ifs ands or buts. 


A question I will pose to everyone: When do you cull a heifer/cow due to calving difficulty? 

If a heifer is "lazy" and I pull a calf for no reason except she won't push - I sell her.
If a heifer is "too small" and I pull a calf - I sell her.
If a heifer/cow has a mispresented calf and I have to pull - I give her another chance if she is "worth the feed".

Everyone else?

I would have pulled that calf too, as long as she had had the waterbag. That's a long time. Sure you might have helped her earlier than necessary, and heifers tend to show signs of calving as soon as they feel uncomfortable, but you got a live calf.

I don't know if I would ship her or not. We've had cattle over the years that were 'lazy' about calving, some were heifers, some were cows that had never had a problem before. Could be that they needed more time and we were worrying too much, could be that there was some hormonal issue with them. Could be that we interrupted 1 time too many too.

About the only times I will cull a heifer on calving difficulties is if we really had to pull a below average calf or a C-section, pretty much doesn't get another chance. If I think there are extenuating circumstances we will usually give them another chance, but it's 2 strikes around here.
We pull the odd calf out of a cow, usually malpresentations that vary from cow to cow every year, and occasionally we might have a cow with a big calf that we help out. Sometimes I'm pretty sure we help when we don't need to, but better a healthy, lively calf than a stressed out one that lays around for hours...

I can only remember 1 cow that we culled on calving difficulties, she had several backwards calves, finally when I was looking through my record book one day I noticed her and that sealed her trip to town.

I've never noticed laziness in a heifer carrying over to the next year.  I see no reason to cull unless it happens as a cow.  I calve out anywhere from 30-60 heifers a year.  If I'm around and catch one just starting to calve, I'll give them a couple of hours.  But if I feel a need to check her, I don't mess with palpating - I pull it.  If I catch one that's obviously trying for a while, I give her an hour to make some progress.

sometimes it is hard to wait! Last night, we had a recip, on calf number 3, out in the corner of the pasture by herself. She is not due until the 14th, but knowing what the weather was going to deal us (rain, turning to snow, with -20 degree temps today into Monday) I brought her into the barn. After watching for 30 minutes, she was definitely in labor. Up and down, pushing while standing, and vocal. Knowing the value of the calf (a Steel Force x REN Extra Nice), I had a hard time sitting on my hands. When feet were present at the opening of the vagina, they looked really high to me (we have had three breech births, and every one of them the feet are high, almost like coming out of the rectum). I decided to check, to try and feel if the feet were presented normally (they were right inside her, so I could not see). My hands were extremely cold, and without putting the cow in the chute I could not get a good enough look. I did not want to disturb her more... so I waited. It was hard! But, she finally got serious and laid down and started pushing. To my delight, the feet were normally presented. She pushed the calf out to the shoulders, then got up!!! I am not sure why, but then she was pushing standing. I did not want the calf to hit the ground, so I went in and helped it to the ground slow and easy. From the time I walked her in the barn, until that calf was on the ground, it was 3 hours. Did I assist? No. Did I want to assist? YES. But I knew this cow knew what she was doing, and saw the calf moving her tongue and legs during contractions so I knew the calf was alive. All was good. Sometimes it is hard to know when to intervene, but when it comes to an embryo calf I watch closely and jump in sooner! Oh, and she was 66 pounds... here is a pic of her:

Waiting on a cow/heifer to calve is the hardest thing to do, with a cow we will usually wait an hour or so but a heifer we try to give them a couple hours. If there is little to no progression in this time I pull them I will take a pulled live calf every day over a dead calf that the cow/heifer had on their own.  Now a few years ago we calved a hereford heifer and she was lazy to push, we had to pull the calf after a few hours of her trying, the following year the same deal not big calves at all 60-65 pounds but she just didn't seem to know to push, both her and her heifer calf made the trip to town, two strikes they are gone.

No plans to cull her!  I honestly think if she had been just out in the pasture instead of a heifer we had up keeping a close eye on we might not have known she was in labor until her water broke at 9:30......  crazy weather lack of sleep etc had us not wanting to wait all night but neither calf nor cow was ever in distress........  she will be registered as assisted but I guess  my sister was in labor with no progress for a day and a half  before deliivery normally and she bred back ok so maybe my standards are warped.  ;-)

a cow/heifer has to calve quick here to go without at least a palpation.
when we palpate, if the calf is up high enough, we pull; if you research it, it has been proven that a quick, easy delivery results in
a quicker breed back time; we don't see any purpose in letting a cow/heifer wait and wait;
if you have a live baby in there and it is high enough to pull, then get it out and be safe.

Our rule of thumb here is to wait 1 to 1 1/2 hours after the water bag is presented and if we have to get one in to check her out and we think that she is dilated, we will just go ahead and pulled the calf. If we check cows and don't know the exact time that the water bag was presented, we may watch for progression if it's day time, but night time we'll more than likely just get the calf out. Just what seems to work best and happen here.

I think everybody that's calved more than a couple hundred can remember a few they wish they'd checked or started pulling earlier.

Can anybody think of one they wish they had waited longer for?

Jeff_Schroeder said:

I think everybody that's calved more than a couple hundred can remember a few they wish they'd checked or started pulling earlier.

Can anybody think of one they wish they had waited longer for?

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I agree 100% with Jeff.  I have never regretted pulling a live calf.

I havent had them here for awile-but I wouldnt hesitate-Ive helped pull a few over the years-and I think waiting and putting them through the huge stress etc.weather they are pushing or not just for the sake of EPDS is plain STUPID O0