I need ideas.

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rmbcows

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I have 3 cows I want to flush... a lot.  My problem is I don't have the cash to do that much flushing, and due to the drought we've had for the last several years, I don't have many cows left for recips.  I don't just want to sell all the embryos, I want to start rebuilding my herd with calves from these 3. 
Do any of you have any thoughts on what I might do? 
If any of you work deals with someone with recips, what kind of deals do you work out?
Thanks for any input.
 

Cattle Cards

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Nov 16, 2011
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Be practical and have patience.  I have a 1st calf heifer bred back and a yearling just bred.  I'm selling the calf on the ground and hopefully next year's two calves.  That money goes back into the program.  I may flush the one heifer (17 time Champion last year) down the road, but I don't have the money.  She'll have to prove she can produce and if she does and her offspring are good enough, I'll sell them and start as "nest egg".  For those of us who do not have the cash flow, we have to be practical.  I may like her and want a number of babies out of her, but if I can't sell them or they can't go on and win or produce, I don't need to be flushing her in the first place.
 

DLD

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If the cows you're wanting to flush are already proven, or possibly even if they're just really good looking cows, you might be able to find someone else who would foot the bill for half the eggs.  It could be a way for you to get some embryo's from your better cows with no out of pocket expense.  You can put in what you have recips for and freeze the rest.  Could be good promotion for you too, even if one of the calves the other party gets does well, you still own the dam.
 

rmbcows

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Thanks for your input!   
2 of the cows are proven, having raised calves that have won shows.  The calf in my avatar is from one of these cows.  The reason I need to flush them now is they are getting up there in years.  I've only kept one heifer (the 3rd one I want to flush) out of these 2 cows, everything else I've gotten offers too good to pass up and sold them, always thinking I have the cow, I can make more heifers.  The time is now, I didn't rebreed them so I can flush them and I want to do it before something happens to the old girls.  I'm old too, so time is ticking lol.  I like your idea DLD, is half the going rate?  I had also wondered about selling embryos... does anyone that's not a big name in the biz have any luck doing this? 
 

BTDT

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If the cows are proven, you might consider selling a flush and then splitting the embryos. The flush sells for $1000,  cow flushes 8 embryos, you get half. Payment for flush is a variable of selling. There is usually a guarantee of so many eggs, be it 6, 8 or whatever.
On the purchases I have made, I paid for "option of flush", paid for semen, had a guarantee of 8 embryos, split 50/50 after that. Seller paid for flush and they picked the facility.


You might also work  a deal like was mentioned before; sell the flush and get half the embryos. You might also be able to work out a deal with a recep herd to put in the embryos and have them keep 1/3 of live calves, with you getting first pick. This is a great way for a commercial herd to get their next herd bull or replacement heifers.

Good luck, just make sure you are flushing quality cows and things will take care of themselves.
 

Cattle Cards

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Being that one or more are proven, you might try doing something along the lines of what BTDT suggested last.  If you provide the cow, agree on a bull, let someone pay the costs of breeding, flushing, implanting, etc. and you get an agreed upon number of calves and choice.  For instance you'd get first choice and they'd get second and third, you fourth and alternating after that...you wouldn't get any money but you wouldn't have to pay anything either.  And sorry, I do recognize the heifer in the picture.  I've always liked her.  Best of luck.
 

rmbcows

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All good ideas, thanks everyone.  Thanks Cattle Cards for the compliment on the calf, but he was a steer. :)  I was shooting for a black baldy heifer, but I had to settle for him, I wasn't too unhappy.  He was Res.Grand Steer at the Big E.  Little okie steer did pretty good back east. 
 

Cattle Cards

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"The calf in my avatar is from one of these cows."

I read it too fast.  By Carpe Diem, no? 
 

DLD

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I know of quite a few deals like I described. You could ask for both cash and embryo's back, you might get some interest, I just don't know.  I'd think if you want to keep half of a sold flush, you're going to have to pay at least half the expenses.  You might be able to sell a guaranteed number of embryos - like BTDT suggested, say 6 or 8, then you get the next 6 then split the rest.  The downside of this is if you guarantee 6 embryo's and she doesn't produce 6, you'll have to refund the money or let them keep flushing your cow 'til they get 6.  To me the simple thing if you'd like to get some embryos for your own use without spending money, is for you to provide the cow and the other party provides the cash, and you split the results.  Otherwise, I'd just flush them myself and try to sell some of the embryo's to cover some of the expense.  I think you could sell full sib embryo's to the calf in your avatar pretty easily, but you need something like that to market them.

Also, I would just split the embryo's - each of you getting half, and be done with it.  If you wait until you get calves on the ground, then try to split 'em up, there's a really good chance somebody's going to be unhappy, plus there's going to be way more expense at that point.

 

rmbcows

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Cattle Cards, yes, the calf is a Carpe Diem out of a black Maine Cow.  Like I said, my attempt at a black baldy heifer.  Better luck next time.  :)

DLD,  I think I like the splitting the embryos 50/50 the best.  I don't want to go through the whole process of waiting for calves and then picking them.  I'm no doubt going to be dealing with people I don't know, and I'd drive myself crazy wondering if they were holding out calves on me.  This way I can care for my own cow, get her flushed to an agreed upon bull.  Who should pay for semen?  I can bring some semen to the table, but I'd be unable to afford some of the high dollar bulls.  What about freezing the embryos?  Each of us pay for our own, or buyer pay for all?  If the cow produces a decent amount of embryos this could be a good buy.  If I remember correctly a flush was less than $400 at Cross Country.  It would probably make good sense for me to pay for the first flush so I can get an idea of how many eggs they will produce.  Then take your advice and sell a few of the embryos to cover some of the expenses. 

Guess I should get the genetic tests done so I'll be ready!
 

DLD

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I'd think the buyer should pay for semen, but I'd think you'd be responsible for the cost of implanting or freezing your share of the embryos.  It's really not a great big deal either way unless you really hit a home run and get a whole bunch of eggs out of one flush.

I have never been able to get an even remotely Hereford colored calf out of anything but a Hereford cow with Carpe Diem.  I know it happens, just hasn't for me.  Have you bred her back that way again?
 

aswaim

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Jul 23, 2013
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All of the deals above sound great id say its all about shaking hands and meeting people  trying to find the right connections. The guy I farm for runs about 100  and his two boys are young and just getting started showing cows.  I found him a guy whom had a bunch of embryos and all he needed was cows to put them in. they came up with an agreement to use the bosses cows as recips and and the boss gets 1st and 5th pick of the heifers and 3rd and 5th pick of the steers out of 40 embryos hoping to settle atleast 30. It sounds a good deal to me if the guy has good embryos then he should be able to sell enough to make a profit and he doesn't have to pay for or FEED any recips. all he has to do is have the embryos put in and pick up the weaned calves. Im young and dumb just trying to make a name for myself like  the rest of us, but I've gained more from getting out and making connections and meeting people than anything. so id say get out and get to know people around where you live (county fairs and such) and don't be afraid to ask. the worst that's gonna happen is someone might tell you no. Hope you find a way to make it work
 

rmbcows

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DLD,  I bred 2 black maine cows to Carpe Diem.  I got that red and white steer and a solid red heifer.  And no, I haven't bred her back to Carpe Diem, she has an angus heifer now and I kept her open to flush.  Carpe Diem would definately be on my list of bulls I'd like to flush her to.
 

Charguy

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I have a deal with a guy with purebred charolais I buy bulls from. My kids are getting bigger, in 4-H and I run a bunch of commercial cows and we thought it would be fun to play with purebreds a little.

Deal is they pay for the flush and the associated costs. He consults us with which bulls to use but we pretty much go with whatever they think. I provide the recept cows and get them ready to implant. We share the cost of implantation. I raise the calf to weaning like it was my own. At weaning they come with the trailer and a flat of beer and pick up half the calves. We flip a coin to see who picks first. If we get one where we both want to be a part of, we share interest and market it accordingly. If there is an odd number we decide which calf we want to partner on. If I think we have a special one and want to show it in the fall, they pick it up with the mother and get it ready around now.

It works good for both of us. I get some purebreds for the kids to play around with (and some darn good ones) out of a program that has been around for 45 years and they dont have to have a bunch of commercial cows running around with their purebreds. We put in 18 embryos this spring.

Good luck with your deal. Just thought I would share what we are doing. There are people around willing to partner Im sure. Just have to find the right fit.
 

Freddy

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CHARGUY ,I have done this pretty much just like you did ,an I never saw a calf out of 30 embryo's, he furnished the receipts  and I went by his place regularly and he just never had any for me to look at ....  Sounds like you are two honest people achieving both your goals and that's great ....We had a father & two sons that raised our embryo's calves and  we paid them a price for calves and they lived right by technician and that worked great for ten years ....  Most times it is best to share flush and split egg's evenly ...  On exceptional cows I have people who want to flush them they  pay  all  expenses for half the egg's ,freezing for my eggs two ....Most of these flushes cost them under 200.00 dollars for  their half of egg's ...  If real bad flush with no eggs or 1-2 I try to help them out or take responsibility for flush ....
 

rmbcows

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oklahoma
Charguy, that's awesome.  My husband worked for M&M Charolais for over 25 years and we bought many heifers from them over the years and had a nice little herd of registered Charolais at one time.  Now quite a few of our cows are high % Charolais, but we don't keep up with the purebreds and just breed them to club calf bulls.  Getting an honest breeder to help you out is great, and they get the benefit of getting their bloodlines in the show ring.  Good luck at the shows this fall!!

Freddy, sounds like you've lived the nightmare.  I don't know how some people sleep at night.  Glad you've found everyone isn't that crooked!
 
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