I really don't need the abuse but I am going to do it anyway

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justintime

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About a year ago, I posted a picture of HC Cruiser 59C and I received a fair bit of abuse including being called a liar etc etc. A couple regulars on this site accused me of tampering with the photo with photoshop. ( obviously they didn't realize that I don't know the first thing about doing that and I have no desire to learn!) Well, here is a picture of him taken last week  and here are some facts for you to consider before you tell me what is wrong with him or me!( by the way, he is definitely not perfect, but I think he does have some strong traits) I will also say that these are the actual facts.

1) he was born from a 2 year old heifer unassisted with a BW of 82 lbs.
2) he was our high selling bull in 2016 at $16,500 at 9 months of age. After buying him, the new owners told me that they were surprised they bought him so reasonably. They said they had gone to the sale prepared to go a fair bit higher. One of the reasons they were so high on him was that they were tired of hard calving clubby genetics and having replacement heifers from clubby bulls that didn't milk or had poor fertility.  They bought him, to produce show steers and heifers. A week after they purchased him, a leading clubby producer in these parts offered them $16,500 for a 1/2 interest in him. They turned him down as they wanted to have the first calves from him. I was able to get back into him, after the man who purchased him died suddenly, and his wife offered to give me a half interest in him back if I would winter 25 replacement heifers for her. That really was a " no brainer" for me.
3) At 9 months of age, Cruiser had the highest score of all our sale bulls that year in his breeding soundness exam. He tested 93 % at 9 months
4) I bred a few cows and heifers to him from semen I collected before he left here. His first son sold in our sale at $9000 last year, selling to a commercial herd in Manitoba to be used on black cows.
5) I picked Cruiser up on December 12th, 2018 and since arriving here, he has been running on a quarter section with our other herd bull and he has only had a few pounds of bull pellets and hay each day. I know some will say that he is far too fat, but I will assure you that is meat you are looking at in this picture. When I picked him up on December 12th, he had been running with cows on pasture  and wheat stubble before that.
6) So far, we have had 12 first calf heifers calve to Cruiser. 100% have calved unassisted with most BWs between 78-88 lbs. We had one calf at 90 lbs last year, but the heifer calved this calf easily.
7) He is without any doubt the widest based bull we have had on this farm in my lifetime. I have had two pretty good cowboys ( that raise some really good Angus) see him recently. One of them said that Cruiser has as much natural muscle as any bull of any breed he has seen. The other guy said he ranked him as one of the best beef bulls he has seen of any breed.
8) He has great feet and is structurally sound. His feet are perfectly formed and I would be very surprised if he will ever need to have his feet trimmed.
9) since picturing him last week, I have had two inquiries from cattlemen who don't even raise Shorthorns, to buy into him, as well as numerous requests for semen. We have not collected semen other than the few straws of " in herd use " semen I collected when he was a year old.

So far, I am pleased with the calves I have had from him. He downsizes frame and adds thickness, without slowing performance. I have a couple coming two year old daughters to calve in April. They look like the right kind.  We are selling 5 sons in our March 5th Sun Country sale. All were born from first calf heifers and all were unassisted at birth. We are also selling two replacement heifers sired by Cruiser as well. 
I have also attached a picture of his first son we have sold. HC Enforcer 60E. He sold for $9000 at 11 months of age and went to a commercial producer.
 

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knabe

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Hollister, CA
he has urine stains or something on the white part of his hide.


definitely a no go here.  (sarcasm)
 

justintime

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Saskatchewan Canada
knabe said:
he has urine stains or something on the white part of his hide.


definitely a no go here.  (sarcasm)


Thanks knabe!  That gave me a chuckle!  The urine stains come from him laying down by the hay feeder the night before we pictured. He had a big straw pack he could have laid on... but no.... he has to flop down in the S**t.!
 

justintime

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Saskatchewan Canada
hntwhitetail said:
Who carries semen in the states?

The only semen that has been collected was some " in herd use only' semen that I collected for my own use when he was a year old. In order to get US qualified semen, he would have to be quarantined in a licensed AI stud for at at least 45-50 days and then after he passes all tests, semen can be collected. The closest stud qualified to collect US semen is 600 miles from here, so if I get a chance before breeding season, to get him out there, I will. If not, it will be next winter before we can get some.
 

justintime

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Saskatchewan Canada
justintime said:
knabe said:
he has urine stains or something on the white part of his hide.


definitely a no go here.  (sarcasm)


Thanks knabe!  That gave me a chuckle!  The urine stains come from him laying down by the hay feeder the night before we pictured. He had a big straw pack he could have laid on... but no.... he has to flop down in the S**t.!

knabe... here is his other side. Maybe you can use this side?
 

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oakview

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What is there not to like about that bull?  He may be stained, but he's cleaner than any of my bulls right now!
 

OKshorthorn

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Nov 2, 2009
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Kingfisher, Oklahoma
Interesting pedigree on that bull JIT, I like him. Wouldn't hesitate to use him on some of my larger framed cows at whatever point you get some semen cleared for the US.
 

RyanChandler

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Pottsboro, TX
His sire is a cow killer. His dam’s sire is a cow killer.  He “has as much natural muscle as any bull youve ever had.”  Yet, at 4yrs old, is wider than any bull you’ve ever  had. (Including the 3000lbers)— Yet he’s being presented as a heifer bull option.  Truly remarkable. 


Just as a reference you know so I can exclude the possibility of my dealings with you being the remote exception, can you refetence even one Shorthorn breeder in all of the United States who has made a repeat bull purchase from you? 

The reality is that if even a 1/100th of your claims held any validity, there would be semen studs and breeders lined up at your doors—  but there’s not.  Lots of stories from buyers in far off lands— but few papers being transferred (check the database) and even fewer notables using your bulls.  In fact,  I can’t think of one single breeder in all of North America using any of your genetics.    Is there not anyone else that finds that wildly ironic considering how noteworthy he presents them as being?  Serious question. 

Funny background about how you re acquired this bull too.  Interesting how there’s always a convoluted dynamic of sorts that accompanies every latest and greatest bull you decide to champion.

So back to the question can you reference even one?  I’d like to speak with them and get a first hand account.  Surely as a businessman you have a book of reference?
 

aj

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western kansas
I hate judging cattle by pictures. I guess you can doctor pictures. I try not to look at pictures. I hate pictures.
 

mark tenenbaum

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Mar 23, 2009
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Virginia Sometimes Iowa and Kansas
I dont think the pictures are doctered-JIT usually has them pretty much minimally fitted: what you see is what they are -But The Bws on his sire Hot Shot can be up there-with a number of heifer calves well over 100. That being said I would put part of it on his dams sire-the problem there-is accuracy (LOL)-lotta registrations but a small number of reported BWS - but so far the reported BWS  on him are not anywhere near the BWS of his antecedents I would think that there would have been more calves-unless his first owner and family  for obvious reasons were not able to do the reporting O0
 

knabe

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Hollister, CA
aj said:
I hate judging cattle by pictures. I guess you can doctor pictures. I try not to look at pictures. I hate pictures.


i see a picture to the left of your posts.  remove it. i hate it. picture looks doctored.
 

justintime

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Location
Saskatchewan Canada
-XBAR- said:
His sire is a cow killer. His dam’s sire is a cow killer.  He “has as much natural muscle as any bull youve ever had.”  Yet, at 4yrs old, is wider than any bull you’ve ever  had. (Including the 3000lbers)— Yet he’s being presented as a heifer bull option.  Truly remarkable. 


Just as a reference you know so I can exclude the possibility of my dealings with you being the remote exception, can you refetence even one Shorthorn breeder in all of the United States who has made a repeat bull purchase from you? 

The reality is that if even a 1/100th of your claims held any validity, there would be semen studs and breeders lined up at your doors—  but there’s not.  Lots of stories from buyers in far off lands— but few papers being transferred (check the database) and even fewer notables using your bulls.  In fact,  I can’t think of one single breeder in all of North America using any of your genetics.    Is there not anyone else that finds that wildly ironic considering how noteworthy he presents them as being?  Serious question. 

Funny background about how you re acquired this bull too.  Interesting how there’s always a convoluted dynamic of sorts that accompanies every latest and greatest bull you decide to champion.

So back to the question can you reference even one?  I’d like to speak with them and get a first hand account.  Surely as a businessman you have a book of reference?


Ryan... you can make all the assumptions you want. I will let my record stand anyday besides yours. I feel fortunate to have spent my entire lifetime in this business, and I have never worked for anyone but myself My cows have provided me with my income. I also feel fortunate that over 90% of my bulls sell to commercial customers and I have sold over 320 in the past 10 years. I sold completely out of bulls for several years and last year, I could have sold at least a dozen more. My bulls averaged over $5200 last year ( Canadian $) and 22% sold to repeat buyers. I expect your record is much better but I won't ask. My best bull customer has purchased 22 bulls in the past decade and he told me recently that he is going to need two more this spring. He runs 300 cowds and calves on grass.  How many have you sold Ryan? And how many purebred breeders are using your genetics?  I keep getting emails and texts from Americans apologizing to me for your comments. I always reply to these people that they don't have to apologize to me for anything you say, as I think most people consider the source.
I knew when I posted a picture of Cruiser on here, that I would receive abuse from you in particular as well as a few others. I thought that he was a bull that should be seen by others. I am a bit overwhelmed by the number of people who has asked about semen from him. I know that you would never buy semen from him, and quite frankly, if I ever collect Cruiser, I hope you never buy any. As for repeat buyers in the US, I try to concentrate on selling to Canadians but if Americans wish to buy, I will try to work with them to get their purchases delivered. I have several US customers, and I have made trips to Kansas, Montana, Oklahoma and Iowa numerous times with cattle to repeat customers. I have sold cattle to 21 states and there are several repeat buyers. I could go on and on but I won't bother.
Quite honestly, if I had listened to your advice over the years, my breeding program would be far lesser than it presently is. What you say to me and about me, does not concern me. The only thing that does bother me, is the thought that someone out there may actually believe the crap you spread. Enough said!
 

oakview

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You might talk to Bob Miller.  Millvale Farms has been in business a long, long, time.  He used (may still be using) a bull called HC Tracer, I believe.  Bob used him for years, swears he's an easy calver.  Check out the past sale catalogs of the Minnesota State Shorthorn Sale.  There's been a picture of Tracer, or whatever his name is, numerous times.  If you know Bob Miller, he'll tell you what he thinks and won't sugar coat it.  He lives in North Dakota, which to the best of my knowledge is in North America.  The cattle there are raised in as everyday conditions you can get.  Charlie Obrecht in Iowa had pretty good luck with an HC bull.  I think the one he bought was reserve champion at our state fair a few years back, so I guess they can work as show animals as well as in the "real world."  The past few years, they have concentrated on the show end of the spectrum for the grandkids, but their HC bull was pretty good.  From what I've been told, most of the HC bulls sold go to commercial cattlemen.  That could be why there aren't thousands of their offspring recorded.  There have been several HC bulls offered that I would have liked to use.  I'm sorry yours didn't work out.
 

oakview

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Maybe I should have checked the ASA website first, but so far my memory has been pretty good.  In case you're interested, HC Tracer has a - 5.0 BEPD with over 200 calves recorded sired by him.  He is still shown as active at over 11 years of age, though only 1 2018 calf was registered by him.  Lots of them over the years prior to that.  Tracer has pretty good numbers across the board.  I don't know of very many bulls with that kind of BEPD that approach 200 recorded offspring.  If you don't believe me, call Bob or look it up yourself. 
 
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