Involvement of Jocks/Traders

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itk

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MCF is 40 minutes down the road one way and KSU is 20 minutes down the road in the other. If I can't find a great steer and someone to fit it I have got serious problems.
 

kimbaljd

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Oct 31, 2007
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Alvin
Jill said:
garybob said:
I have an opinion, but, it may offend some of you guys on here,so, I'll try to tone it down some. I feel they are a necessary part of the Show-cattle biz, as they are usually smart business people/entrepreneurs despite their Youth. However, some of their "antics" infront of/with the kids can be less than desired.

They tend to promote underage drinking, but,parents also have a right to raise their children as they see fit. I guess, my Southern, Christian up-bringing kinda makes me shocked when i go to a major Show/sale and see folks openly letting their kids drink, especially in the company of the Traders/Jocks. I've also noticed that they tend to give better "customer service" to the girls than they do to the boys. Y'all know what I'm talking about.

I developed a drinking problem in College, so, I hate to see a young person going down the same rough road.

Respectfully



GB

I know your going to find this hard to believe, but I agree with GB on this one.  I don't have a problem with drinking, but I think there is a time and place for everything.  Jr. shows and sales shouldn't be places I am afraid of what my kids are going to see. 

I agree with you but for other reasons. I am not concerned about my daughter seeing that kind of stuff. I try to do everything I can to give her a good upbringing. I was married to a woman who was brought up in a family where they were strict, Quakers actually. They made such a big deal about how horrible it is to drink and how sinful it is. There were a few grandkids in that family that had real drinking issues. I try to tell my daughter that ther is a time and place for everything and that what you do influences others around you. I dont want to hide things from her is all I guess I am saying. Dont know if that makes any sense.
 

shortdawg

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I've pretty much dealt with only one but he has always been good to me and my family. I think they add to the deal a lot. A guy told me the other day that unless you are capable of fitting a Champion calf get some help.
 

shortyjock89

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itk said:
MCF is 40 minutes down the road one way and KSU is 20 minutes down the road in the other. If I can't find a great steer and someone to fit it I have got serious problems.

No kidding, itk..seems that you're in Steer Country there.  I should have came to see your place last summer at the Key Conference..didn't know you were so close. 

About the Jocks.  I never have had one fit for me, but I have learned alot from them.  When I wanted to learn how to fit a few years back, my dad told me to tag along with a jock that we knew at a couple shows.  I sure did learn a lot.  I've also seen how crazy they get about fitting at a county fair.  I have seen quite a number of jocks twine up a steer that weighs 1050 and send it in the lightweight x bred class.  I guess the owners really wanted a shot at winning, but the $50 and the blue ribbon aren't enough incentive for me to do that at a CF.  Back to my involvement.  I think that I can fit pretty decently, but I don't kid myself..I'm no Kirk Stierwalt or anything like that, but I can run with most people around here.  I think that jocks can really help kids learn how to do things right, but then again, there are a few that ruin the reputation of all the good ones. 
 

red

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Gary bob, it just wouldn't be you without an opinion. Never fear putting it out there. We are all entitled to our opinons. what we need to remember is that by doing that we need to let others also be entitled to theirs!

Red
 

Dusty

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How do breeders feel when a trader buys one of your calves and it goes on to win some big shows, but the trader never says where it came from and a lot of the time the breeder never knows how the calves end up doing????  As a breeder part of the satisfaction of raising show cattle is feeling good when one of your calves wins....
 

knabe

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Hollister, CA
this is solved with repeat customers not repeating, or a renegotiation for future transactions with that individual.  it may be that it does everyone a service to keep things obscure if the satisfaction between parties is satisfactory, ie there is nothing like a "secret" repeat customer that now knows what appreciation is required to keep close to the tap.
 

occ

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May 14, 2007
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Georgia
My children have only been showing for five years, so we are still relatively new to this, but I think in GA, traders have upped the quality of the show cattle.  Shortdawg, correct me if I'm wrong, but for really competitive calves, I don't know if there are enough raised here.  Not many of us have the option of running all over TX, OK and the midwest looking for calves, definitely adds to the cost of the calf.  Having someone bring a set here just gives us another option.  Even for club calves raised in the southeast, it helps to have a knowledgeable person put together a good set for a sale.  I love to watch the really good fitters work and see the calf after they are finished.  I think that good, honest competition makes everyone strive to be better.  We did get burned by a trader a few years go, but I blame myself.  This is just like anything else, BUYER BEWARE.  We learned a good lesson.     
 

red

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Dusty said:
How do breeders feel when a trader buys one of your calves and it goes on to win some big shows, but the trader never says where it came from and a lot of the time the breeder never knows how the calves end up doing????  As a breeder part of the satisfaction of raising show cattle is feeling good when one of your calves wins....

Dusty, hate that! I'd probably never sell them a calf again. JMO

Red
 

kanshow

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Quote from: Dusty on March 10, 2008, 01:10:56 PM
How do breeders feel when a trader buys one of your calves and it goes on to win some big shows, but the trader never says where it came from and a lot of the time the breeder never knows how the calves end up doing?  As a breeder part of the satisfaction of raising show cattle is feeling good when one of your calves wins....


Dusty, hate that! I'd probably never sell them a calf again. JMO
 
Me too... 

This might be good for another topic..  What rights does the seller have?    We got reverse burned one year..  sold a nice calf to a local kid - our kids were either really little or not here yet.  Never heard from the kid again the rest of the year - we had made it very clear we would be more than happy to help with anything - feed recommendations, clipping, etc.  We were at the county show where the kid showed this steer.  I was SO EMBARRASSED.  He hadn't fed him, the calf was  hardly halter broke - It took two guys to get him to the ring.  The dad was there -  DH asked what happened..  The dad was so proud and said Oh we just wanted to make sure he could get into the premium sale.  So the next year they came back wanting another calf - Dh wouldn't even give him the time of day - he was so mad. 
 

minimoo38

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Courtney Hughes- Bagley, Iowa
Dusty said:
How do breeders feel when a trader buys one of your calves and it goes on to win some big shows, but the trader never says where it came from and a lot of the time the breeder never knows how the calves end up doing????  As a breeder part of the satisfaction of raising show cattle is feeling good when one of your calves wins....

i know somebody like that. he is a trader. he just flat out told my dad that he had NO business knowing where one of our calves went. and it's not like this guy has enough to advertise already.  ::)
 

Dusty

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I've had this discussion with several breeders.  Whether they ever thought about putting a chin brand on their calves, tatoo etc..  The consensus response was that they sell a good share of the calves, virtually all the top end ones to the traders for really good money, and they don't want to do anything to piss the traders off.
 

itk

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We don't sell many steers but with heifers they will always have your herd prefix on the registration papers unless the trader changes them. Getting an identifiable brand works but it takes time to get the animal/breeder connection put together in peoples mind. Still it works for places like Express, V8 and others. Pannel and MCF are the two places that come to mind in the clubby deal that have identifiable brands on their cattle. However brands can also hurt you if the judge doesn't like the breeder you got the calf from.
 

DLD

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I don't trade that many, but I don't mind letting the breeders know where they went or the buyers know where they came from. If they choose to bypass me next time, so be it, but it certainly means I have no further obligation to help the buyer with fitting and management, or to sell them another calf. Likewise with the seller, I don't have to buy anything else from them. It happens occasionally, but most breeders and feeders appreciate what I do for them enough not to do that.

If you treat everybody right, it's really not a problem - and the one's that'll cut you out for a dollar are prob'ly not long term customers or suppliers anyway.
 

chambero

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Feb 12, 2007
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Texas
I hope people make money off of our calves.  I'm not offended by knowing someone doubled their money.  I don't like it when a trader tries to continually lowball us when we know they are getting 5+ what they act like they are wiling to pay us.  If they don't want to pay us that's their choice, but don't try to keep us in the dark out of paranoia of us finding out the truth.

The other side.  We used to deal with just one guy on a % basis.  We got tired of not making any money because he couldn't get the calves sold for much at all - calves that went on won in Texas.  So, we said we weren't going to do it any more.  We'd sell them to him, but that was it.  No more "partnering".  He comes in and expects us to sell our top end to him for literaly $100 over market.  He was horribly offended when we laughed him off.  And then was shocked when his clients started coming directly to us when they found out he didn't have the calves anymore.  We did what was right and told them they needed to stick with their original POC, but we wouldn't cut him out.  It cost us money, but we felt we had to stick to principle. 

People that are secure in their own abilities and business shouldn't be afraid to share information.  You can only keep people in the dark so long.  Likewise, breeders have to respect their duties when someone tries to go around a trader. 
 
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