Iowa County Fairs low in numbers

Why would anyone want to make more rules to show calves. They will let as many kids show calves as possible. It's simple, money. Some of my best times were had @ the Iowa State fair as a kid. Go for the fun of it.

A lot of the better calves don't go to county fair because they don't want them out in the heat for 4 days and start shucking hair before state fair.

Herr in Kansas the rules state that you have to exhibit in that project so you just have to take a steer to the county fair if you want to go to state, not the same one you take to the county fair. I think that's the way it should be. My last year in 4h our county agent made us bring the heifer we were taking to state fair to the county fair or she would not sign our entries. This heifer was WAY over kill for our county fair and went on to win our state fair that year and all the people in our county did was complain about that heifer being at the county fair. I guess it's a catch 22 but I personally agree with being able to take different calves to the county fair as it gives others the opportunity to compete and not have to go up against those state fair or other show caliber cattle. We never personally brought our best to the county fair and got beat there quite a few times but alaways competed at a state level and were fine letting someone else win at the county fair.

CAB and Dusty are the only posts in this whole thread that make much sense . the state fair numbers get lower and lower each year why would you want to make it harder to get into. With the exception of a couple every year, most deserve to be there quality wise.If county fairs are worried about numbers , don't make cattle go lay out in a hot barn for 4 days when 1 - 2 days would be plenty.Most county fairs won't even give cattle tie-outs because somebody "might" get an unfair advantage. As far as the share a calf program , nothing makes me madder.The whole idea of the breeding beef program is for kids to start their own herds not make some leg monkey famous.Unfortunately Iowa has a long time practice of some of the better heifer showers playing this game. 

The way Louisiana does it for their State Show is the animals have to qualify at a District show...while the judge places every class he also assigns each animal a color, either purple, blue, or red.  Purple ussually points out the higher end of the animals and qualifies them for state, blue is the lower end but still qualifies them for state...red means they dont go on to state, but really the only time I saw an animal get a red was when it was pretty obvious that there was a lack of care or try on the exhibitors part.  I grew up in Louisiana and spent the last 5 yrs in MN, I personally dont like their rules because I think it keeps a lot of deserving kids out of the State Fair...the main purpose of these projects is education after all, and I feel that rules like this make it more about competition.  In the Spring I moved back to east Texas for school and I really like the way the county here did the Steer Show sale in the Spring.  After the show the judge one by one did a sale line up...they do have a maximum number they will sale but from my understanding I dont think they often reach it...however the judge does have a right to reach a point where he/she says the rest of the animals dont deserve to be in the sale, this year it wasnt enforced but there was a couple that I think made the judge consider it...animals pretty obviously were not fed correctly...but the judge went and talked to the exhibitors before making his decision and in the end let all animals sale.  Again this is about education...and even though they all got to sale, I am pretty sure that those lower end kids that got talked to were pretty embarassed and at the same time the judges, agents, and ag teachers were able to educate them on proper care.
As far as the response about missing your county for Junior Nationals...I think every good plan should have an appeals process and you should be able to petition for special circumstances.

Lets see... the beef expo is one of THE largest junior shows in the country
                  the iowa state fair is one of THE largest state fairs in the country with one of the largest junior shows in the country.

I see no problem with requiring the junior showman to show at the county fair.  If they are not good enough to show at their county fair, then they shouldn't be good enough to go to state.  but I suppose that is the same excuse the "big dogs" in the breeding shows never show at the state fair, but will go to denver and Lousiville and Ft.Worth..... always afraid of getting beat by some little dude. (But that is a topic for another thread.)

I would say most of the reasons county fair numbers are down is due to producers and 4-H numbers are down itself. I don't think there is a ton of calves not going to county fairs because they are going to state. The calves are just not there period. I live just south of des Moines and there are now many more corn fields standing in old patures that had cattle running on them for years when I was growing up. Also when I was younger and showing there was a large percentage of kids my age showing. And of all of those people I grew up with showing prob only 5 stayed with cattle and farming. Most of the others do not have anything to do with farming at all anymore.

Our county fair beef cattle numbers were as high as they have been for awhile. Sheep numbers MAY have been down a bit. Hog numbers were down, but quality was up. I think these things are cyclical.    As for Iowa State Fair steer numbers, I see no reason to limit numbers there by enacting more rules. Heck, when I was a kid, the steer show lasted 2 FULL days with huge classes--so relatively speaking it is small in comparison. I think more rules would only cause more problems....as is often the case.

I agree with PLKR.  More rules simply confuse the whole thing further.  I haven't shown jr cattle for nearly 20 years and when i see all the hoops that my nephew and friends kids have to jump through these days, i wonder how they get it all done.  The easiest way to increase numbers at the county fair is to work hard on the sale at the end.  Counties with good sales have good numbers.  Counties that don't have local support struggle. 

Our county fair is one of the few that is before our State Fair, all champions sell at county, so you would not bring your state fair animal to county, plus the hair shucking thing is a definite detractor. Our county fair had 68 head, 20 less than last year, state fair had 30+ head this year. The calves that show up to state are good ones but the ones who do not win go on to their counties where they usually fair much better.

The county fair champion sold for $11 or $13,600 where the state fair champ sold for $6,750
Where would you want to win and sell your animal?

BOOF said:

My whole post doesnt have anything to do with sift or qualifying for the state fair. It has to do wih if the kid has one of those "Big dog" animals or NOT. They MUST show that animal at the county fair to be eligable to show at the state fair. No switching animals. You would have to take that one or 3 to the county fair to be able to take them to the State fair. Dont they use DNA and Retinal scanning anymore? So that could be monitered. So if there are 20 or 120 head at the county fair they are all eligable to go to the state fair. But making this mandatory to have to show at the county fair would make the County shows more competitave and help numbers tremendously for the majority of the countys. It it may help get more youth involved in showing or just 4-h. If Kids are in sports and other activities in the summer and it may interfere then I guess they will have to make a decision.
Great discussions everyone!

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I think you could also look at it the other way.  We have a small county fair and a couple of kids that show very competitive animals but leave them at home for the county fair to make it less competitive.  For the most part everyone in our county gets along very well and some kids that only show at the county level get a chance compete becuase the big dogs stay home.  Not many people want to bring a breeding heifer to county fair if you know that there will be two others that cost $25K plus there, not that price always means you will win but it sure gives and indication you probably have a pretty good one.

rtmcc said:

iowabeef said:

BOOF said:

Ok here is something to debate. In Minnesota kids need to win a trip to the State fair. In turn this brings better numbers to the county fairs. As many have know the livestock numbers are going down more and more at the local Iowa county fairs. Why cant there be a rule to help the livestock numbers at the county fair? The RULE would be to make it mandatory for whatever livestock animals the 4-h exhibitor wants to show at the Iowa state fair they have to show at the county fair. Im not saying they need to win a trip like Minn. They just need to show that animal or animals. In turn this would probably help the town, county, and the fairs make more profit and just help the economy a little. It would also make the county fair mean something again. I know theres all these high dollar calves and other animals being saved for the state fair. But if EVERYONE had to show to be eligable for the state fair it would keep things fair. Just an opinion open for discussion.
Thanks

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I believe in Minnesota you are also only allowed to take 1 project to state. So if you had a steer, a pig and a photograph all earning a trip you would have to pick which one you would talk.  Can anyone from Minnesota enlighten us on this. If that were the case here in Iowa, it would put a dent in the greatest State fair in the country.  

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You are correct.  Only one trip per kid.  The number of state fair trips is based on the number of exhibits in the project at the county fair.  For our county there was 110 head of beef cattle including dairy strs.  If you have at least 90% participation in Showmanship you get a bonus trip for the county.  I think it ended up being about 14 or 15 animals getting to go between Hfrs., steers, cow calf pair, prospect calf and dairy steers.

The kids don't sell their animal at the county fair auction, just the "premium."  This way they still have their animal for state fair the end of August.  It can be a challenge if you have an early county fair and have to have a market animal close to ready then and then still be fresh and the right weight the last week in August.  Sure makes for some nice classes at the state level.

Ron
<cowboy>

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In Minnesota you are allowed to take a livestock and non livestock project, and because the State 4-H Horse Show in not held during our State Fair, you can take livestock, horse and non-livestock  if you earn a State Fair trip.

forcing people to show at the county fair in order to show at state will not add many calves in our county and it would make it more difficult for me to compete with the pros.  I like it the way it is now.