is a black and white female homozygous black?

If I bred a black and white heifer to  a smokey bull (maineXchar), what are the possible colors. Can a balck and whit female be homosygous black?

I wouldn't think she be homozygous black. I'm pretty sure they have to be soild black.

I'd think you'd get a combination of black & dark grey smoke. Might see some patterened similar to her. I'm sure the gene experts can break it down better. Knabe probably has a square figured out for it already!

Red

It has been my understanding that a homo black bull can still throw some chrome.  Homo black is not necessarily homo solid patterened.  Homo black simply means they won't throw a red calf.

cant' answer any color questions,

but spotting is labeled with an S.  you need to have ss to be spotted.  the black gene is labled with an E, with ee being red.  so yes, since these are two genes, you can have a homozygous black animal with spotting. it would look like this.  ssEE

i'm thinking heatwave is SsEe as he throws spotted cattle and red cattle.  so... getting a homosolid homoblack polled THF calf with his phenotype and is able to pass it on is going to be pretty rare.  probably why clones are used so heavily for steers now.  i'm actually kind of shocked there aren't more red heat waves out there.

most people want SSEE.  there is a test for homo black, but not one for spotting.  those solid homoblack direct descendents of magic, in my book, are reasonably valuable.  i know what i would cross them with in a heartbeat if i had some.  supposedly, you can linebreed them and you won't have a wreck.  a couple of people have lots of them, probably the most numersous, are the reflector lines.  when you double up smithbuilt in the same field, supposedly you lose at least one frame score.  the trick with these is obviously to get that lower quarter with that nice hip in a homosolidblackpolled package.

thanks Dusty! wasn't sure on the chrome. Knew I've seen some calves w/ white out of homozygous bulls & cows.

Red

Great information.    There are plenty BWF Simmis out there who are Homo. Black. 

What happened to GENES? Havent seen her on hear in LONG time.

I had e-mailed her to make sure she was ok. she said she was just swamped w/ school. the internet was becoming to much of an addiction so she went cold turkey.

Red

Knabe, I ran across the new Farrer/Fawley bull, Red Bull, this morning and he is a full sib to HW, is solid red. My question is he will have the same chances as HW of throwing black or red calves, correct?

CAB,  if he's bred to a homo black cow, they will be black. 

but if you have a red carrier, like i do, 50% will be red ee, and 50% will be carriers for the red gene Ee and be black. 

heat wave who is black, mated to the same cow has a  25% chance of throwing red, with 50% chance of throwing a carrier, with 25% chance of homo black, so in this case, 75% chance of throwing black.

i think one can thank their lucky stars that most of these traits of interest are mendelian, ie a single trait and act in a dominant recessive manner.

CAB said:

Knabe, I ran across the new Farrer/Fawley bull, Red Bull, this morning and he is a full sib to HW, is solid red. My question is he will have the same chances as HW of throwing black or red calves, correct?

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He will have a greater chance of siring red calves because he is homo red.  He doesn't have the black gene so for the calf to be black it would have to get the red gene from the dam.  A homo red bull mated to hetero(red gene carriers) black cows would result in:

50% homo red
50% hetero black

so 50% would be red, where is HW mated to the same cows would result in:

25% homo red
50% hetero black
25% homo black

HW would have 75% black calves mated to the same set of hetero black cows

I've got one for ya,
i recently saw on a breeders website a fall calf that was an About Time X Charlois that was solid white.  How does that work?  I think About Time is homo black.  I could see getting a smokey (codominance), but I wouldn't think you would get a white one?

Ok, I thought Homozygous black meant that they couldn't produce anything but black, if it were homozygous solid you would then get black and solid.  How can a homozygous black produce red?

Ok, I thought Homozygous black meant that they couldn't produce anything but black, if it were homozygous solid you would then get black and solid.  How can a homozygous black produce red?

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I think there must be a mistake on the test because it should not be possible for a homozygous black to produce red. 

Dusty said:

I've got one for ya,
i recently saw on a breeders website a fall calf that was an About Time X Charlois that was solid white.  How does that work?  I think About Time is homo black.  I could see getting a smokey (codominance), but I wouldn't think you would get a white one?

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That calf must be a very light smoke with that mating. I would love to see the photo.
Charolais do not carry the CO-DOMINATE gene. They are a Homo Red animal that is homo for the DILUTER gene. That is why they get gray when mated to a angus.
The only thing that carriers the CO-DOMINATE gene are roan or white shorthorns.

Jill said:

Ok, I thought Homozygous black meant that they couldn't produce anything but black, if it were homozygous solid you would then get black and solid.  How can a homozygous black produce red?

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In the above scenarios neither the bulls nor the cows were homo black.  HW is hetero black, and the cows were hetero black.

I read that Pale Face is Homo solid bodied. at first i found it odd since he was a baldy but i am yet to see a calf with chrome anywhere but the face, legs or flank. this still confuses me though because i thougt that wouldn't happen. also, how are herefords' color determined when bred. they are all "red baldies" so are they ssee?

Face white and body white are two different genes. Socks and belly are different too. The white face on Herefords are dominant. If you use Knabes letters they are ssEE. That is why when you breed say, Hereford cows to a Angus bull all offspring in the first generation will be black baldies. Then when you breed those heifers, which would be ssEe, to another Angus bull you will get %50 Black baldies and %50 solid black faced.
The other white genes are recessive and need two carriers to show up.