Is attitude heritable?

Specifically asking about tempermant at calving and how heritable it is if we keep a replacement heifer out of a very mean momma

Show Steaks said:

Specifically asking about tempermant at calving and how heritable it is if we keep a replacement heifer out of a very mean momma

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I know one of the worst temperment cows we ever owned had a daughter that was just the same. You may luck out and get a better dispostion from the sire's side.

Temperament is highly heritable. Use a mean tempered herd sire, and you will have a mean set of daughters almost every time. And I agree with Okotoks, in that cattle acquire a part of their temperament from their dam whether it be their natural mother or their recipient mother. Put an embryo in a goofy recip and you will most likely get a goofy calf that is very hard to handle. My opinion is that there are lots and lots of cattle on this planet that have good dispositions that we really shouldn't even have to consider keeping the crazy ones.

My 2 cents on this I keep hearing about how bad of attitudes Full Throttle stock has. I own 2 Full Throttle cows, one is 12 years old that I have owned since a calf, the other is 6 years old and have owned for a year. The 6 year old was protective at first but is now as gentle as the 12 year old. They are both very gentle that I can walk rite up to and rub all over them without any problem. I work with my stock almost every day and they are use to me. When I can walk up to these cows in open pasture and put a halter on them and walk them around, don't get much tamer than that. They are so much like a pet that when they see me, they come to me wanting to be scratched.

i think some of the attitude is genetic while some is environmental. we have had high headed cows have some flighty calves that started to relax the more they were around people and now they are puppy dogs.

We had one that came from out west to our little world. We don't have the pastures or space obviously that she was use to. She was like a deer for the longest time. I was worried her calves would be the same. We used 3C Macho on her and the heifer calf followed you around from day one. I careful select sires for her and so far the calves have been some of the best tempermant.

Every animal is different. From my experience most calves out of goofy dams will settle down after weaning if you have them around other good tempered calves and handle them a lot. Every now and then there will be one that won't settle down and still has aggressive or flighty tendencies and I get rid of them.

It's genetic and environmental. Cattle can be DNA tested for docility but it also depends on the way they were raised (if a baby calf sees people all the time, it will be calmer around people as an adult).

I think there is definately some heritability to attitude, but I also think there is a lot more to environment and how much you put into it than a lot of people want to believe. We know there are some genetic lines that just seem to produce cattle with a natural tendancy to be crazy, and some of them are just so crazy that they never settle down.  But in 20 yrs I have seen very few cattle that couldnt be got to a manageable temperament with work.
In addition to me being all into the show world, my family also raises bucking stock!  We wont keep a cow or bull that is dangerous!  I know most people think bucking stock are just naturally mean, but most of our stock can be pet through the fence, and a lot of them will walk right up to you in the pasture for you to scratch their heads.  The only reason we dont trust them all that much is some of them actually get a little pushy if you dont show them enough attention right away, and you just dont wont 2000 lbs of bucking bull pushing you around.  We have a friend that raises some darn good bucking stock and everybody knows that whatever he brings to a rodeo is gonna snort in your shorts, and they are all out of bulls and cows that have the same attitude.  Everybody, my family included, says they are proof that interaction doesnt settle them down, because he is out there with them every day.  But here is my issue, he excercises these bulls every day(running bucking stock is very common to keep them in shape to buck), so these bulls interaction with him consists of him going out there using dogs to run em in the arena, using a hot shot to get em in the chute, and then using dogs to drive em a few laps around the arena.  I think I would be mean to.  All of his will come across the back 40 to get you, and everybody just thinks its in their genes.  We have bought several bulls from him that had this attitude, and when they realize that we arent gonna manhandle em that way, and that a lot of days all we do is catch em up and feed em, every one of them has calmed down.  They arent big babies, but they will walk right past me into the catch pen to eat, without even payng attention to me, and I can move em around in the catch pen without much trouble.  They still get a little scary when you corner them and push em to hard, but any cow has the potential to do that.
SO I think genetics gives em higher potential but environment and how much and how you work with them has the most to do with it!

I agree with you in general about your comments about temperament. I think both genetics and environment have affects on temperament, and they probably affect some cattle differently. I have seen major differences from bulls sired by different sires  and they seem to have the same temperament all across the country. I also agree with your comments about the bucking stock. I wintered all the bucking bulls for a major rodeo contractor here in Canada for 4 years, and most of them were puppy dogs to handle.Ther was oftentimes over 50 of them in the pen.  There was a small percentage of them that had their butt in the back corner every time you walked into the pen but the majority of them were very quiet. I had absolutely no problems with them as long I treated them with respect and gave them their space. I had a Brahman bull in our feedlot of my own that had been raised as a pail fed calf. He was actually half Brown Swiss but he looked like a fullblood Brahman . He was super quiet and he would always come up for a scratch when I walked into the pen. The rodeo contractor offered me a few dollars over market for him, as I was just planning to feed him to slaughter. He took him home and used him on some bucking stock mother cows, and he sired a bull that went 3 years and was never rode here in Canada and made it to our National finals a few times.

a little off topic, but still about attitude...around here, if i cant walk up to it in the field and put a halter on it, it doesnt stick around....husband gets kind of annoyed, because for example, any time we have to work the cattle, vaccinate, ai, etc...you cant push them or run them into a shoot...they just stand there, turn around and look at you like "why are you acting so goofy waving your arms around and hollerin'"...so, i halter them and lead them thru the head gate...he says they are worse than puppy dogs...but it works for me...because he works 12 hour shifts, sometimes i have to "work" the cattle by myself...

almost all my cows go back to gizmo...my experience with him has been excellent as far as dispositon goes...i have great grandchildren in my little herd from my first shorthorn show heifer...and they are just as sweet acting as my first sammy...

genetics have a decent amount of influence but in my experience you can change the way almost any animal acts by working them and making them tolerate you.  I don't buy a bull, cow, or calf unless I can walk up to within a pretty short distance of them in a pasture and in our cattle they get worked quietly and calmly (I believe my Granddaddy was the original Temple Grandin in philosophy) so if they throw their head up or even attempt to bust out they go straight to the sale barn for feeder calves or killer cows.  I have AId to bulls that I was warned the calves would be in Alabama before I could blink and had calves that as yearling would still try to eat my clothes off, and I've had calves that were absolute nuts for no apparent reason.  Both have their own effects but I believe environment can overcome genetics on almost any animal, if you're willing to give them the chance to improve, with the exception of the odd unbreakable unpennable wackjob...

He have hour Cover Girl cow family, the main on has had 8 calves and they have all been freaking crazy, manageable but crazy. And real mean after they have their calves, great milkers and great calves. Just mean as can be. Never have had one calving problem from this cow family. Have a kid showing one for us, he has done a great job, and is one brave dude to put up with such an honorary project. But he stuck with it and did really well at the state and local level with her.
I did notice that a calf that is in the 3rd generation from the original is the best behaved i have seen.

and just a little anecdote, I picked a bull up Friday and was picking at the breeder about temperament (he is very reputable and has excellent cattle in every way and we've been friends and traded cattle for years) and said I didn't like the bull's disposition, to which he replied "that calf doesn't have a disposition"  imho that's the best selling line I've ever heard.  The yearling bull laid down in front of me, let me pat him on the rump to get up and only walked fast enough to keep me from climbing up on his back

I agree that with work and time 90% of flighty cattle can be calmed enough to tolerate i was more inquiring about post calving disposition as the cow i have in mind seems to have a radar and wants to eat you for 3 weeks after she calves, luckily never had  calving troubles with her and her calves somehow never get a bad eye or get sick. Flat mean but she is a good lookin girl  and i would like to keep her but i cant deal with the attitude, thats why i ask if her daughter would be  a raging demon as well

if you like a daughter I would keep her and see.  If she is her mama's spawn then get rid of her after that first calf but if she is calm then you have a good cow.  I like my cows to be protective towards the dogs when calves are little but one that snorts at me goes to the market or hamburger pen.  Sorry to misinterpret your question earlier.

Like was said earlier,  There are plenty of good cattle out there, it's not worth the risk to me or my kids.  Hospitals are more expensive than a REALY good heifer!!

I have a very docile herd. I don't worry too much when tagging and weighing calves; mothers will ball a little and come running but very seldom enough to worry me. Two years ago I was tagging a calf, didn't think about it and let mama get behind me. next thing I knew I was on the ground. I checked cow's background and her dam had knocked me down a few years earlier. These are only times it has happened. she raised a good calf that went to the feedlot and she went to the hamburg factory.

Several years ago we bought a set of EXT daughters.  They were all goofy.  We bred them to shorthorn bulls and kept some of those back for replacements and had no attitude problems.  Now we have grand Daughters and every once and a while one of the calves out of those granddaughters will be completely nutty.  From my experience attitude is higher inheritable.