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Author Topic: Is there a breed that doesn't have a genetic defect.  (Read 4894 times)

Offline knabe

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Re: Is there a breed that doesn't have a genetic defect.
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2008, 08:57:52 AM »
isn't the angus breed one of the largest breeds? i have heard that they have more registration applications than most other breeds do. if they are as large as i think they are, then proportionately they shouldn't be too bad off if they only have one genetic defect. ;)

um, angus have more than one defect.  there is at least two types of dwarfism.  since they are a "larger" breed, they have a disproportionately larger chance of passing on defects. large is as large does.

i sure wish i started with fullbloods, in spite of at least 6 or 7 defects.

Offline DL

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Re: Is there a breed that doesn't have a genetic defect.
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2008, 09:04:28 AM »
isn't the angus breed one of the largest breeds? i have heard that they have more registration applications than most other breeds do. if they are as large as i think they are, then proportionately they shouldn't be too bad off if they only have one genetic defect. ;)

Yes the Angus have the most registrations and are the largest breed in the US, but they have more than one genetic defect - that depending on your point of view may or may not have been handled in a rational manner. Long nosed dwarf, snorter dwarf, fawn calf syndrome, arthrogoposis, marble bone, and others too obscure or numerous to mention.

IMO a mutation per se is not necessarily a defect - red and polled do not increase morbidity or mortality, are not associated with lethality - you may not like red, but it is not a defect and actually could be considered advantageous in warm climates (so would that make black a defect??? ;)
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Offline simtal

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Re: Is there a breed that doesn't have a genetic defect.
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2008, 09:06:17 AM »
Im not trying to hijack this discussion!  ;D

I read and article yesterday that said that "mini" cattle could be the future of our industry.  #1 for kids as projects, these cattle would requre less feed there for being less expensive for the kids.  #2 for our industry, these cattle will produce more meat in relationship to their size and feed intake when compaired to larger cattle.  That makes them more economical and profitable for the feeder.  My question, however, is do packers discount these cattle for being smaller?

Fluffer

require less feed? absolutely, more economical? No way jose.
yeah they get discounted, they don't weigh up as much other cattle, nor gain as well or grow as efficiently, mainly due to composition.  If you sell on carcass weight your at a disadvantage, plus your gonna get killed on dressing perecent.  It maybe easier with a big choice-select spread, but when yield counts (lower cattle prices and tighter spread) its different. Granted, there is an ever increasing trend for smaller high quality beef supplies but, you don't see any of these big yards feeding these types.  However that doesn't mean that the cow sector couldn't benefit from some these genetics.  just my two cents.

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Offline Rocky Hill

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Re: Is there a breed that doesn't have a genetic defect.
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2008, 10:35:51 AM »
I've seen a dwarf angus heifer at the sale barn before. They ran it through with the bucket calves but you could tell it wasn't a newborn calf. When my dad was young, his neighbor raised registered angus cattle and they had a couple of dwarf calves each year.

My high school ag teacher used to have a dwarf hereford cow but someone shot her during deer season one year. She said that she raised a calf every year.

Offline fluffer

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Re: Is there a breed that doesn't have a genetic defect.
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2008, 11:56:06 AM »
Im not trying to hijack this discussion!  ;D

I read and article yesterday that said that "mini" cattle could be the future of our industry.  #1 for kids as projects, these cattle would requre less feed there for being less expensive for the kids.  #2 for our industry, these cattle will produce more meat in relationship to their size and feed intake when compaired to larger cattle.  That makes them more economical and profitable for the feeder.  My question, however, is do packers discount these cattle for being smaller?

Fluffer


require less feed? absolutely, more economical? No way jose.
yeah they get discounted, they don't weigh up as much other cattle, nor gain as well or grow as efficiently, mainly due to composition.  If you sell on carcass weight your at a disadvantage, plus your gonna get killed on dressing perecent.  It maybe easier with a big choice-select spread, but when yield counts (lower cattle prices and tighter spread) its different. Granted, there is an ever increasing trend for smaller high quality beef supplies but, you don't see any of these big yards feeding these types.  However that doesn't mean that the cow sector couldn't benefit from some these genetics.  just my two cents.


Here is the web site for that article.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/business/story/123369.html

Fluffer

« Last Edit: August 15, 2008, 11:57:04 AM by fluffer »
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Offline TJ

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Re: Is there a breed that doesn't have a genetic defect.
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2008, 12:18:21 PM »
Im not trying to hijack this discussion!  ;D

I read and article yesterday that said that "mini" cattle could be the future of our industry.  #1 for kids as projects, these cattle would requre less feed there for being less expensive for the kids.  #2 for our industry, these cattle will produce more meat in relationship to their size and feed intake when compaired to larger cattle.  That makes them more economical and profitable for the feeder.  My question, however, is do packers discount these cattle for being smaller?

Fluffer

require less feed? absolutely, more economical? No way jose.
yeah they get discounted, they don't weigh up as much other cattle, nor gain as well or grow as efficiently, mainly due to composition.  If you sell on carcass weight your at a disadvantage, plus your gonna get killed on dressing perecent.  It maybe easier with a big choice-select spread, but when yield counts (lower cattle prices and tighter spread) its different. Granted, there is an ever increasing trend for smaller high quality beef supplies but, you don't see any of these big yards feeding these types.  However that doesn't mean that the cow sector couldn't benefit from some these genetics.  just my two cents.


simtal, here is some interesting data fro you to look at...  ;)

http://www.kylowline.com

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Offline TJ

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Re: Is there a breed that doesn't have a genetic defect.
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2008, 12:33:01 PM »
In fairness, the data above is from 1/2 blood Lowline sired steers out of commercial heifers, and they are not mini steers, just small steers.   I agree that you can get too small.  Even the majority of grassfed people that I know want 1/2, 5/8 or 3/4 Lowlines.  They don't want anything smaller than a 3/4 blood & sometimes a 3/4 blood is too small.   For a commerical producer a 1/2 or 5/8 Lowline is all that you would probably want, but those genetics are proven to be profitable.

And yes, the article is correct, kids do spend much less money feeding mini's than they do most typical "show" animals.  But, you can get the same benefits from a 1/2 blood Lowline as you can with the minis, due to their "easy doing ability".   And as the data proves, you can still get a 1/2 blood Lowline steer to finish up in the 1,100-1,275 lb. range & you can get them to that weight cheaper.  1,100 - 1,275 lb. finishing weights are not too minature, but when you see your final feed bill you will think that you were feeding miniatures. 
http://www.kylowline.com

Romans 10:9-10... "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

Offline knabe

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Re: Is there a breed that doesn't have a genetic defect.
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2008, 12:35:55 PM »
put another way

is there a comparison of the same frame score cattle.

looking at the data, once could infer some dramatic window of frame score not to exceed with low lines with 4.7 being "optimum".

i'm not sure the graph says anything other than that the price varied.

it looks like the more important factor is to just add 300 lbs to the lowline animals rather than 241 or 349 lbs.

what would be more interesting to me is to track ultrasound ribeye area over time, corrolate that with on the hoof evaluation, add in fat cover, marbling after the fact etc and determine a product and determine age to quit feeding and fit a window one desired.  the more you could do that on grass while minimizing (not eliminating) corn, the better.  it seems the good feeders already know this, but most producers don't, producers that track data are doing it with less numbers than feeders, but with genetic tracking.  this looks like the conundrum of the feeder packer trying to influence more pressure on producers to have a more uniform product and just feed it a different number of days based on the terminal product, walmart vs restaurant.

Offline aj

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Re: Is there a breed that doesn't have a genetic defect.
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2008, 01:34:22 PM »
Wow...just checked back on my post and all kinds of genetic defects have broke loose. DL...if you snail mail me a copy I can cover costs. Didn't the limi's have a deal where they were sensitive or alergic to sun or something. Mutation and evolution has occured a long time. For instance if a polled buffalo bull existed....would he even get close to a female buffalo(cause he had no horns to help him battle)? Thus the polled line would never occur. I guess I need to go to a buffalo convention and get educated on this stuff. Mutations are forever unless you make them go away alot of times. Th is not going to go away unless you test and make it go away. So 500 years from now it will be floating around out there unless we make it go away.Alot of people can't understand how you can get a horned calf when both parents are polled. Or they don't get how you can have a red calf when both parents are black. Education is the key. I just wish I could figure out the Red Angus deal but I'm not sure anyone has yet. ;D
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