its ALL red, white, and roan under the hide!

i started this on my facebook page, but decided it would be better suited here...just venting a little after a recent trip to the sale barn with some culls due to drought conditions...

was at the sale barn last week with culls...wanted to stand up and scream "you idiots! its ALL red, white, and roan underneath the hide!!!"....but i didnt...thinking i may make a sign though and hang it in the lobby...minus the "you idiots" part, of course....

Dori:  I'm gathering you fell prey to the black hide price bump?about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.

Linnette Jane: that would be correct dori...picture this...same quality and size animals...mine was a perfectly healthy roan, the other was a lame, limping on front leg black angus...guess who got $0.10 more per lb? its a sad day when you cant even outbid a lame black hided animal....about an hour ago · LikeUnlike ·

Moreland: About guarantee your cow will taste better on the grill too! It's ridiculous isn't it?about an hour ago · LikeUnlike ·

Brock: I flip out everytime I sold. It's safe to say I'm not very well liked at our local reducers. about an hour ago via mobile · LikeUnlike.

Linnette Jane: i need some promotional shorthorn beef stuff...i want to plaster it all over that lobby...for whatever good it would do........................................and then im going to go out and buy an angus herd bull....about an hour ago · LikeUnlike.



but then i got to thinking...even if i got an angus bull, would i still be docked for blue roans if i took any of them to the yards?  will a blue roan bring more than a red roan? "red" meat, "white" fat, "roan" marbling....its all the same under the hide!!!!  just needing to vent a little....

MAYBE IT WAS AND MAYBE IT WASN'T a angus cow. She may have been lame b ut she was BLACK!!

That being said the American Angus Association has done a world of good for alot of people with the "CAB" program.  They have promoted the color of easily the largest herd book of registered cattle in the United States.  Sorry to say it but by yourself you wont change the "black is better" motto this country has taken.

Also no one has forced you to raise i'm assuming shorthorns??? you yourself could make the choice to put that "black hide price bump" in you pocket.  Also if we are speaking of shorthorns your breed isn't helping your "red, roan and white" issue by allowing for a shorthorn plus registry.

For the record i don't think a lame cows no matter the color should out sell a cow that can get out and move.

Just my 2 cents...

doesn't matter if those two kill cows can "get out and move" or not.  After walking through the ring, they'll get on a truck and get off a truck, that's about it.  Sorry.

My whole point in posting isn't about weather or not 2 cull are sound or not... Its about one associations work to promote their breeds color and one with little or no attempt to do the same thing with its breeds colors

LJ, I understand what you are saying . Same thing happens here. I have even had them try to mark the tickets on solid white calves I've sold as Char's, but I make them change it. I figure I might as well dance with the that brung me wether she's ugly or not.
I even thought about the black clean up bull route before and even went as far as giving Jaecke some money in the Denver Maine sale about 3 years ago. Didn't get anything bought and I'm kinda glad now that I didn't. I figure I might as well end up with purebred calves out of my bull instead of plus calves . I guess because my livelihood doesn't depend on my cows then I can afford to to take a hit when I have to take some to the yards. Don't like it at all when it happens.  That's why I feed out some of my bull calves that don't make it , instead of shipping them.

DKT Angus said:

My whole point in posting isn't about weather or not 2 cull are sound or not... Its about one associations work to promote their breeds color and one with little or no attempt to do the same thing with its breeds colors

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you nailed it on the head. !!  I have no complaints most that know the value in shorthorn order buy long before the sale barn.

My experience, if you have black calves, a few low percentage blue maine crosses will sell right along with them, and often hitting the high of the market that day.  However, we had a heterozygous black angus bull for several years and so we also had about 1 or 2 red calves a potload and they sold right along with them as well.  The reds were consistently good looking calves.  

As has been discussed, that black hide is hard on them right now.  Our hand full of red calves have always appeared to weaned heavier, been healthy and fleshier.  Looking at net profit, if you sold here, you may be even or possibly money ahead.  After wintering on wheat pasture, there doesn't appear to be a significant difference.  Haven't convinced myself it would be worth the effort and weight loss to separate them out to weigh them for actual numbers.  

Another place you may be ahead with off colored cattle (besides summer time feed lot) is loss at time of weaning.  We weaned early during the drought last year, and the hotter weather didn't help out for sure.  

I'm thinking of working toward red mamas and cover them with a black bull until proven uneconomical.  I think they will be more efficient in the south, as and added bonus if I want red calves in the future, it is an easy to do.  

BadgerFan said:

doesn't matter if those two kill cows can "get out and move" or not.  After walking through the ring, they'll get on a truck and get off a truck, that's about it.  Sorry.

Click to expand...

DKT Angus said:

My whole point in posting isn't about weather or not 2 cull are sound or not... Its about one associations work to promote their breeds color and one with little or no attempt to do the same thing with its breeds colors

Click to expand...

 

IF we're talking about packer cows and bulls, not only does it not matter if they limp (as long as they can get around), it doesn't matter what color they are either, or what your favorite breed association has or has not done for anyone lately.  There is no CAB program for mature cows and bulls - the high yielding ones that are in good condition (but not too fat) bring the most money, period.

Calves are a whole 'nother story...

DKT Angus said:

My whole point in posting isn't about weather or not 2 cull are sound or not... Its about one associations work to promote their breeds color and one with little or no attempt to do the same thing with its breeds colors

Click to expand...

Exactly to the average consumer "Angus beef tastes the best", which really means Angus has done the best job at marketing.

CAB is nothing more than a term used for black hided animals so our CAB you think you are eating is ANGUS could for sure be holstein more times than not.....

[/quote] 

IF we're talking about packer cows and bulls, not only does it not matter if they limp (as long as they can get around), it doesn't matter what color they are either, or what your favorite breed association has or has not done for anyone lately.  There is no CAB program for mature cows and bulls - the high yielding ones that are in good condition (but not too fat) bring the most money, period.

Calves are a whole 'nother story...


[/quote]

U hit the nail on the head. a lot of times a cow that is limping around will be ganted out and thus less waste to her and sell better to kill. Its all about the best yield, and also straighter gutted cows will out sell these big bellied momma cows that we strive for in our maternal looking cows

Doc said:

LJ, I understand what you are saying . Same thing happens here. I have even had them try to mark the tickets on solid white calves I've sold as Char's, but I make them change it. I figure I might as well dance with the that brung me wether she's ugly or not.
I even thought about the black clean up bull route before and even went as far as giving Jaecke some money in the Denver Maine sale about 3 years ago. Didn't get anything bought and I'm kinda glad now that I didn't. I figure I might as well end up with purebred calves out of my bull instead of plus calves . I guess because my livelihood doesn't depend on my cows then I can afford to to take a hit when I have to take some to the yards. Don't like it at all when it happens.  That's why I feed out some of my bull calves that don't make it , instead of shipping them.

Click to expand...

Same here Doc, they always try to mark my white shorties as charolais and I'm like "no, they're shorthorn, you know the one's with marbling?". I also end up keeping a lot of my purebreds to sell as freezer beef and I can not believe the response of my customers because of the quality and taste. Shorthorn beef truly is the real deal and consistently so. Now if us breeders will just continue to put pressure on the association, sale barn managers, buyers, feeders, and more, then maybe we can make some progress. I still think the best thing for the Angus breeders would be to add some Shorthorn for hybrid vigor while retaining or improving marbling and maternal traits.

Red bred heifers here in Eastern Iowa this spring were bringing $100 to $200 a head more.  Talk at the sale barn was that atleast they knew then they were getting british influence in them then.  Red cattle have been selling well here the last few years.

chiangus said:

DKT Angus said:

My whole point in posting isn't about weather or not 2 cull are sound or not... Its about one associations work to promote their breeds color and one with little or no attempt to do the same thing with its breeds colors

Click to expand...

Exactly to the average consumer "Angus beef tastes the best", which really means Angus has done the best job at marketing.

Click to expand...

/// ESPECIALLY SINCE CAB IS A JOKE-IF ALL THE SO_CALLED ANGUS BEEF COMES FROM ANGUS CATTLE-I AM THE F$%^^&*(IN POPE O0

I have posted this before, but we recently sold 32 head of purebred shorthorn steers and heifers.  We received the CAB premium for them.  They were mostly red, but certainly were not black.

I feel that the tide is turning and that the Shorthorn breed is going to make significant strides in acceptance by commercial breeders over the next decade.  Shorthorns have a lot to offer...maternal, docile, carcass quality (marbling / leaner carcasses).  Not trying to bash Angus (as they obviously have a lot of quality to offer), but it seems that they do have some issues with Yield Grade 4 and 5 carcasses and disposition. 

We just had a visitor to the farm this week...he has a large commercial operation and hasn't had a Shorthorn for more than a decade and even then it was a small percentage of his herd.  He is looking to red Shorthorns for growth and carcass traits.

mark tenenbaum said:

chiangus said:

DKT Angus said:

My whole point in posting isn't about weather or not 2 cull are sound or not... Its about one associations work to promote their breeds color and one with little or no attempt to do the same thing with its breeds colors

Click to expand...

Exactly to the average consumer "Angus beef tastes the best", which really means Angus has done the best job at marketing.

Click to expand...

/// ESPECIALLY SINCE CAB IS A JOKE-IF ALL THE SO_CALLED ANGUS BEEF COMES FROM ANGUS CATTLE-I AM THE F$%^^&*(IN POPE O0

Click to expand...

Maybe it was angus maybe not. That will be the fall of the black cattle. Everyone of my freezer beef customers know what


Shorthorns are now and won't go back and I offer blacks at a discount!

I just noticed that I left out some important information....We received the CAB premium for 2 of them.

Eggbert said:

I have posted this before, but we recently sold 32 head of purebred shorthorn steers and heifers.  We received the CAB premium for them.  They were mostly red, but certainly were not black.

I feel that the tide is turning and that the Shorthorn breed is going to make significant strides in acceptance by commercial breeders over the next decade.  Shorthorns have a lot to offer...maternal, docile, carcass quality (marbling / leaner carcasses).  Not trying to bash Angus (as they obviously have a lot of quality to offer), but it seems that they do have some issues with Yield Grade 4 and 5 carcasses and disposition. 

We just had a visitor to the farm this week...he has a large commercial operation and hasn't had a Shorthorn for more than a decade and even then it was a small percentage of his herd.  He is looking to red Shorthorns for growth and carcass traits.

mark tenenbaum said:

chiangus said:

DKT Angus said:

My whole point in posting isn't about weather or not 2 cull are sound or not... Its about one associations work to promote their breeds color and one with little or no attempt to do the same thing with its breeds colors

Click to expand...

Exactly to the average consumer "Angus beef tastes the best", which really means Angus has done the best job at marketing.

Click to expand...

/// ESPECIALLY SINCE CAB IS A JOKE-IF ALL THE SO_CALLED ANGUS BEEF COMES FROM ANGUS CATTLE-I AM THE F$%^^&*(IN POPE O0

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

The agrivating part is not so much they bring less but that people who are in the know are licking their lips when you take one to the sale barn. They know they are going home with a great product for less money because of so many out there don't know.

This is not just the assiaciation fault but producers must stand up and take part of the blame. As producers are you willing to pay more in dues and fee's if it leads to more advertisments and studies to promote the breed? Are you yourself willing to get out there and do someof the work. Will you hang flyers and post results of studies and advertisments at your local fairs,feed stores  and sale barns or advertise in your local papers. Trust me it may means getting laughed at, ridiculed and mocked but if one person asked a question and gets interested in the breed, if the next time your feeders go thru the  sale barn and 2 guys bid a couple more times for your feeders cause they saw somthing on the wall before the sale eventally it would all be worth it! IMO

Any of you shorthorn enthusiasts care to explain these results? Its obvious to me order buyers cannot afford to pay more for theses types of calves:

6322: JSF Jazz 34S x ArSuLu Osage
6323: NPS Governor x  AT Open Range
6324: NPS Durango x AT Open Range
6325: ArSuLu Osage x "Dover"

Group finished last in pen of 80 for ADG at TriCounty Feeders

cowdoc1973 said:

Any of you shorthorn enthusiasts care to explain these results? Its obvious to me order buyers cannot afford to pay more for theses types of calves:

6322: JSF Jazz 34S x ArSuLu Osage
6323: NPS Governor x  AT Open Range
6324: NPS Durango x AT Open Range
6325: ArSuLu Osage x "Dover"

Group finished last in pen of 80 for ADG at TriCounty Feeders

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#3 sucked out loud.  need to find out what created that and end it.  outliers in every group, so perhaps just a bad combo of genes and not a true reflection on parents.  that sucker had a huge weight with a ribeye reminiscent of the 1980's.  obviously it indicates something is in there to weed out if the lines still create good ones.