JBS launches Shorthorn branded beef

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librarian

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That's the way to do it. Breed for carcass quality and promote that quality by charging a premium. As long as the quality is there, the customer will convert to the belief that Shorthorn always was and always will be superior to Angus. The high end customer always supports a revival of traditional wisdom. When we camouflage our genetics to pass as black we lose our distinguishing character and the ability to market as Shorthorn influenced.
In my shelf stocking experience, anyway.
 

Judge

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It's pretty hard to say that shorthorns are superior to angus when your shorthorns have no clue what direction they are going. Are they a beef breed or a milking breed or a club calf breed? Just go to the sale barn and see what happens when the horns walk through the ring they bring about as much as a highland or dexter. and don't say it's because the angus has just promoted the breed and lucked into it and brainwashed the consumer. The shorthorn breed hast not come together at all the have no doablitiy in them just look at the rump structures and high pin bones they are hard doing. and with today's prices you cannot afford to own them
 

librarian

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I was going to add that to claim that traditional wisdom says Shorthorn beef is better than Angus you have to have a traditional Shorthorn fattened on turnips and linseed cake. Not very relevant, but a good story to tell the customer. We are talking about a niche, I think. Deposing Angus is not very realistic.
Beyond that, the old time quality claims that I'm familiar with pretty much agree that the Shorthorn x Angus is best for the butcher.
So, yes, you have to back it up with the right genetics. The Australians are ahead on that... with some help from Canada. But with selective production we could get there, I believe.
 

Okotoks

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Judge said:
It's pretty hard to say that shorthorns are superior to angus when your shorthorns have no clue what direction they are going. Are they a beef breed or a milking breed or a club calf breed? Just go to the sale barn and see what happens when the horns walk through the ring they bring about as much as a highland or dexter. and don't say it's because the angus has just promoted the breed and lucked into it and brainwashed the consumer. The shorthorn breed hast not come together at all the have no doablitiy in them just look at the rump structures and high pin bones they are hard doing. and with today's prices you cannot afford to own them
I guess it pretty much depends on the market you are in. I have sold at the top of the market on several occasions with shorthorn steers and have several commercial breeders buying more than one shorthorn bull at a time. The focus in Australia has always been more commercial orientated cattle and that selection process is evidently paying off. JBS wouldn't be getting involved if what you claim was even remotely true and Morrison's in Britain would not be paying a premium for Shorthorn if they did not think they had better quality. There is no doubt lots of work to be done in identifying and propagating the bloodlines with the superior carcass traits but there are several lines out there which will suit the market. Are we behind in North America, no doubt, but there is huge potential and opportunity!
 

Judge

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Librarian if your shorthorns are so superior and sways have been why do you need the angus cross in there at all? And let's be clear iam not saying there isn't potential for the horns to regroup and change the breed for the better but there are to many that thinks it's fine the way it is and don't full a sick one unless it's dying. There just isn't enough great shorthorns to make it happen tommorow it will take at least a decade to get it where it needs to be.
 

librarian

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The topic is branded beef. When you have a brand you have to have brand recognition.
So it's about advertising. Advertising is powered by spin.
So, for Shorthorn branded beef there needs to be spin that leads the consumer to accept the assumption that the Shorthorn product is more authentic.
So, we turn back the clock to the days of diversified farming when Shorthorns prevailed as America's premium beef. You imply that Angus success is a feedlot artifact and the Shorthorn label supports a return to diversified farming. Then you show a picture of a Shorthorn steer going to market on the back of a 1935 flatbed truck.
They said Shorthorn x Angus was best because they grew better and tasted better than straight Angus. But all the good stuff came from Shorthorn.  ;)
 

Okotoks

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Haters will keep on hating ::) but but the genetics are there, the demand is growing and the opportunity is boundless (thumbsup)

Yamburgan Shorthorns have posted the current highest bull sale average for 2015 clearing 100% of the 85 sires catalogued to achieve what is believed to be a record Shorthorn bull sale average at $8,882. Top price received was $28,000 for lot 26, Yamburgan Emperor J396 who sold to Malcolm Smith, Picton, NSW.
Other high selling lots included Lot 3 $26,000 to Doolibah P'Ship, Lot 87 $26,000 to Baroome Pty Ltd, Lot 80 $20,0000 to Nagol Park Shorthorns, Lot 46 $18,000, Lot 6 $17,000 and Lot 81 $16,000.
Volume buyers were repeat client Stuart Brownlie, "Deepwater", Meandarra, who purchased eight bulls for an average of $12,125.
17 heifers also achieved a 100% clearance selling to a top of $8,000 three times to average $6,529.
 

Cardinal_Crest_Shorthorns

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Judge said:
why do you need the angus cross in there at all?

Hybrid vigor..... The shorties need it just as much as the angus, just as much as the herefords, just as much as the simmis, if we are making terminal animals. Why do you think we show crossbred steers?
My point is not to say that you dont know what hybrid vigor is, but that angus, just like shorties, benefit from some crossing too.

But that isnt the point here, I agree with the other posters, its good to find a niche market for a breed. I think it has been openly admitted in this thread that the shorthorn breed in the US has room for improvement. How else do you move toward improvement but by discussing new ideas, Judge?
 

Judge

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My problem isn't the hybrid vigour my problem isn't finding a niche. My problem is when people say shorthorns are the better breed and always have been. I owned a whole herd of horns bout from rebatable breeders spent lots of money on good cattle and bloodlines, I lost my shirt trying to feed the shorthorns, I tried lots of different things and just could not make it happen, the horns were just to hard doing. Switched to angus and they took half the feed. Raised bigger calves sold for more money, more demand, cows bred back quicker came in from pasture fatter smaller calves at birth the list goes on and on. It's great your trying to fix the breed but it's gunna take time, it's gunna take lots of commitment to turn the breed around. You look at the horns from the early days they were deep sided, square headed( non of these ant eater noses) moderate and looked like they could convert feed. It's not hating it's the truth and librarian can live in deniale about the horns are better and feedlots want them etc but the bottom line is if shorties don't change they will be like land before time, "extinct"
 

justintime

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judge... you obviously had the wrong Shorthorns. We operated a feed lot for many years and the Shorthorns we fed were consistently the most efficient gainers ( lbs of feed/ lb of gain) and they were always on the first loads to market. A few years ago, a set of 100 Shorthorn steers, from one ranch that runs Shorthorn cattle, entered one of the largest feedlots in Western Canada and all 100 went to market the same day. They were the highest gaining pen in the feedlot and they also were the most efficient. When they were slaughtered this group received the biggest premium ever paid by Cargill in Canada of $110/head. Word of this pen of cattle went through the feeding industry like wild fire and I firmly believe this was the turn around point for good Shorthorn feeder cattle bringing top prices on the feeder markets. Our Shorthorn and Shorthorn crosses are always at the top of the markets.
I think the Shorthorn breed has a good product. It may not be possible to establish a brand for Shorthorn beef in the near future because of the numbers available in the breed, but it is certainly possible to establish smaller niche markets in local markets. I supplied 5 meat markets with beef for several years when we were feeding cattle. One of these markets asked for only Shorthorns as he felt the meat was superior. It was a great market as he took 12- 15 Shorthorns a week. Another wanted more Shorthorns and I provided them when I could.
In the beef business perception is sometimes more important than fact. The Angus breed has done a great job of marketing the perception that Angus beef is the best beef. I can honestly say that the two worst steaks I have had in my entire life were steaks I received in well known Steak houses that served only certified Angus beef. They were simply uneatable. I am not saying CAB beef is a bad product.. far from that. It is one of the best products, but occasionally it can be poorer than your perception suggests.
I recently sold a 1/2 beef to my vet who raises some pretty good Angus. She commented to me recently that it is some of the best beef she has ever had. It seems that I hear that quite often from people who buy Shorthorn beef from us.
 

librarian

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As long as the quality is there, the customer will convert to the belief that Shorthorn always was and always will be superior to Angus.

Perception is what I was getting at and I'm sorry for antagonizing Judge.
CAB got where it is by selecting for quality and then linking quality with black in the customers mind.

My advertising campaign is all about reestablishing the link between premium quality and the true beef Shorthorn type. That type is red, white or roan, not black.
Judge said:
it's gunna take lots of commitment to turn the breed around. You look at the horns from the early days they were deep sided, square headed......




















 

trevorgreycattleco

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Lots of shorthorn breeders moving in the direction of commercial acceptance. Just gotta know where to look. I still see lots of potential in shorthorns or I wouldn't have bought into them again. Over the next five to ten years I'm willing to bet the breed makes some serious strides toward acceptance somewhere other then a show ring. As big as the Jr ASA is, we need to be emphasizing real world cattle as the superior beast in the shows. The judges choose winners on fluff and fat especially in heifers. Zipper necked or freaky boned are wastes of time. Colleges need to reevaluate what seems a show ring winner on these judging teams. That's the only way you bridge the great divide that exists today. Just my two cents.
 

justintime

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E3 Durhams said:
Lots of shorthorn breeders moving in the direction of commercial acceptance. Just gotta know where to look. I still see lots of potential in shorthorns or I wouldn't have bought into them again. Over the next five to ten years I'm willing to bet the breed makes some serious strides toward acceptance somewhere other then a show ring. As big as the Jr ASA is, we need to be emphasizing real world cattle as the superior beast in the shows. The judges choose winners on fluff and fat especially in heifers. Zipper necked or freaky boned are wastes of time. Colleges need to reevaluate what seems a show ring winner on these judging teams. That's the only way you bridge the great divide that exists today. Just my two cents.



There is nothing wrong with beef cattle shows if they are conducted properly. I have said for many years that we should be showing breeding stock .... not just breeding show stock. IMO, a cattle show should raise the cattle to the top that have the best opportunity to move the breed forward, in all segments of the breed, not just the show ring. I think we need to move a couple steps back in this direction.
 

Judge

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That is one thing that is true judges picking these zipper fronted, fat as hogs fat cattle. They need to teach kids good cattle not how to hide flawes in poor cattle by growing hair and fitting them to the nines. Judges also need to start picking more cow calf pairs that have proven themselves. I bet if you did a study on how many of these heifers come back to the show ring once they calve would be disturbing. I don't know how many shows I've seen in all breeds that judges use some little calf or yearling over a good pair. I know the angus is trying to make there shows more of a blow and go at the point shows some allow glue but no paints others no areosol at all.
 

idalee

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The Australians have been on the leading edge of commercial promotion and acceptance of Shorthorns for many years now.  In the late 1980's,  Graham Mitchell,  CEO of the Shorthorn Society of Australia, along with Sandy Munro,  of Weebollabolla,  organized a Shorthorn delegation to visit meat importers in Japan.  Armed with booklets and training photos of recent feedlot trials in Victoria, Japanese buyers were impressed, and orders for Shorthorn carcasses were generated from this trip.  In addition,  Ashleigh Park Feedlot in NSW as well as Australia Meat Holdings were feeding Shorthorn steers for the Japanese trade.  Through information from these and other feedlots,  Shorthorns have proven to be the most consistent marbling cattle of all the main beef breeds in Australia, and Shorthorns have continued to enjoy the fruits of effective promotional efforts in that country.  The World Shorthorn Conference was held in June of 1998, and we visited two of the feedlots operated by Australia Meat Holdings,  Beef City at Toowoomba,  QLD and Caroona, in NSW.    There were over 2000 Shorthorn steers at Caroona and an additional 1000 at Beef City, and what an impressive group they were!  Acres and acres of fat Shorthorn steers was a sight to behold and one I will never forget.  I came home with the clear conviction that the only thing wrong with Shorthorns in America was a failure to promote our product.    Congratulations and good luck to JBS for taking the next step in the re-education of the  consumer as to the merits of Shorthorn beef. 
 

aj

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If the Shorthorn breed would stop cattle shows for 10 years......the breed might get back on the right path. Most.....not all Shorthorns have little if any enviromental pressure put on them. Its mostly show feed......semen......embryos and et. No natural selection....this is problematic.
 

justintime

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aj said:
If the Shorthorn breed would stop cattle shows for 10 years......the breed might get back on the right path. Most.....not all Shorthorns have little if any enviromental pressure put on them. Its mostly show feed......semen......embryos and et. No natural selection....this is problematic.



I think that using cattle shows as a reason we can't get the breed on the right path is an excuse that we all have used for far too long. Not all breeders are interested in producing show cattle, and I think we have far more breeders trying to produce cattle that will work in the commercial industry than ever in the past decade or two. I certainly do wish the show ring could move closer to real world cattle, but that does not mean that all show cattle are not useful. Some are excellent. I don't see why what happens in the show ring should affect the cattle you or I use in our breeding program. Of course, we need to keep up on what is happening in the shows but we certainly have the ability to decide what we are going to use in our own herds.
As for environmental pressure, I guess that would be different depending where you are located. I am sure the environmental pressure in Western Kansas would be a bit different from central Illinois. We all have to select cattle that work in our environments. As I have said more than a few times before, there are cattle from all bloodlines that can work for you and there are also cattle from all bloodlines that won't work anywhere. I have a cow in my herd, that is a true testament of this. If you judged her only by her pedigree, many would say she would not work in a real world operation. Her sire and dam were both US National Champions. Our cattle are run in a commercial way, and winter on basically hay and fresh air. This cow is picked out by almost every visitor as one of their favorites. She is always fat, despite milking well and raises great calves. One of my commercial bull buyers absolutely loves this cow and he recently purchased a set of 4 embryos from her in a sale, for $1400 each. He said he did not think he could afford to buy sons of her, so he was going to try to produce some himself. In my opinion, she simply works and asks no questions.
As far as semen, embryos, etc, there is no breed that does not utilize these techniques. That is not going to change so we  better all get used to it. With costs raising at alarming rates, semen and embryos are becoming the most economical method of acquiring new genetics for your herd, whether you live a few states apart or in another country. I think AI and ET will only become more important when you consider the overall advancement of a breed. That is not going to change. It is up to each of us as breeders to sort though all the cattle we have available to use, and select what will work for us. The advancements we have today in genetic testing and other advancements are mind blowing and they are changing so fast I can't begin to keep up. That is not going to change. We are living in a pretty amazing time in the advancement of beef cattle.
Personally, I think it is time we toss all the excuses aside, and start to design cattle we think will work regardless of what others are doing. Production is only one part of the equation, as we all have to become better at marketing. I am convinced that if we produce the right kind of cattle and do the right kind of marketing, they will sell. Seems to me there is a saying about building a better mouse trap....
 

librarian

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Unless you are a insider, its not that easy to track down the breeders who are slowly steadily working on predictable genetics for carcass in Shorthorn.
How could that information be organized and made more accessible to commercial producers?
It's possible that some of the best genetics out there are not registering anymore.
How do we get performance data in a format that is credible and consistent outside of ASA?
If ASA is willing to be held hostage to big show bucks ( just the impression I get- maybe not true), then what is an alternative? I'm sure there's a simple computerized way to provide the information necessary for those searching for a high marbling Shorthorn terminal cross.
I'm not convinced that the bulls aren't out there yet...I think they are just getting bought up and buried in the herds of savvy commercial breeders.
I'm not really talking about an EPD sort, I'm talking about a Breeders Directory with sortable performance data from multibreed tests.
 
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