Land Issue

Okay, I know this is a cattle forum but I have to ask a question about land.  Last planting season we rented a small junk of land from a neighbor.  Actually we have rented it for many years and unfortunately the lady who owned the land would never write up a contract like we wanted. To make a story short, this past fall she decided she would rent to her grandson for $15.00 more per acre.  This was after we had done all the tillage.  She did not even allow us to counter offer.  I can understand the grandson thing even though he has no equipment and is a sophmore in high school but we now want to be paid for the tillage work that was done this fall.  My husband would like to take it to court but I told him it would never hold water because there was never a contract saying he was renting the land.  We have approached the owner of the land and her grandson and they are saying they do not have to pay for any of the tillage work even though they had not informed us of the grandson renting until tillage work was done.  I think we have to eat the costs of the tillage of the land because no contract was ever written up.  I feel that if taken to court old time ways of doing things are thrown out the window.  I dont think anything would hold up in court.  What is everyones opinion?

Laws like this vary from state to state.    In Iowa, a tenant  has to be notified by sometime in sept if any change to lease agreement, written or verbal, is to be made.   Basically they have to tell you if they are going to even raise rent.     In Missouri, I believe it is 90 days before the season starts........  

You might get ahold of a land manager or something like that that would know the state law.   If the date was not until after you did the tillage, you are out of luck.   If not you have two choices.....   You say it is a small piece of land.   IS IT. (Edit) worth legal fees and suing a neighbor over the few hundred dollars you would get at the "custom" rate for fall tillage?   If it is junk land is it worth it to sue your neighbor to farm crappy ground.   If it were me, my reputation amongst my neighbors is more important to me.      You say the grandson has no equipment...   He is going to have to have custom help.   Offer to be the custom work and chalk it up to helping a young guy get started, maintain your reputation as a good neighbor. 
That is likely worth more in the long run, and the neighborhood will know that the landlord screwed you over.   But at twelve or whatever the local rate is per acre, it isn't worth the legal fees that if the state date is on your side you would win.   If it is not you won't.

Tell them you are taking them to civil court

Or just do it. Be careful of exit points.

The era of handshakes are over.

There are too many people with other undisclosed liabilities

Limiman has some good ideas.

Maybe it will be for sale soon.

According to this, Minnesota law does not require termination notification.......


Chalk it up to learning and karma.

If she has a grandson that wants to take it on, why should she not give it to him as quick as he's old enough to try?  I agree, relationships are worth a whole lot more than the loss of a little labor.  You run that risk any time you lease land, contract or not.

When you approached them, if they were anything but apologetic,  Id have already filed the paperwork.  Whether written or verbal makes no difference.  There was a 'meeting of the minds.'  Win or lose,  theyd know I was a man of principle.

Principles are great to a point, but why pick a fight you can't win?  If Minnesota has no notification of lease termination required as what I found suggests, you are not going to win it in a courtroom, and it will cost more then you win if you did.  Yeah you got burned, but at the same time with nothing in writing, at any point did you ask the landlord if it was yours again this year, or did you assume it was......  If that question was asked and answered before hand then likely you would not be in this mess.    I for one would hesitate to get lawyers involved.  Being a good and unrstanding neighbor is a principle too, yes you spent some time and diesel on what you describe as a small piece of land.  It only gets worse when lawyers get involved......

How much land are we talking about.  That is a major factor in the equation...... 

Litigation is expensive so don't proceed unless you have lost a fair amount of money already.

When the courtcase is over, they will still be your neighbours, win or lose!  Your other neighbours will know you are the better man for it!

Limiman makes some excellent points, I would go with his suggestions.

When you tally up the score at the end, life's too short to be remembered as the a**hole!  As a friend once qouted after a similar bad business experience, "the wheel turns", he added that unfortunately it was often too slowly, but it does!  His didn't, the ex-business partner had a heart attack less than three months after their episode!

It is 40 acres. Yes, we want to be good neighbors but her Grandson also works for another neighbor who has been knocking on everyone's door to buy everyone's land and now he is upset because we are all putting in irrigation and no one else will sell land to him. This land owner is also my daughters sponsor for confirmation so we are trying to keep the peace but we know he is the one paying for and farming the land. This is what makes me the most angry.

-XBAR- said:

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world

Click to expand...

How does this quote jive with



,

-XBAR- said:

When you approached them, if they were anything but apologetic,  Id have already filed the paperwork.  Whether written or verbal makes no difference.  There was a 'meeting of the minds.'  Win or lose,  theyd know I was a man of principle.

Click to expand...

No win situation, neighbor, same church etc.  don't let the animosity toward the other land owner cloud judgement in this situation......  With out legal notification of lease termination required, you don't have a land to stand on, and the other land owner has likely advised them of such.    Walk away with you good name.

Imagine there's no countries          because keeping people out who would do you harm is racist
It isn't hard to do                            especially if you are hitler
Nothing to kill or die for                  cause they are already dead and there is no more disagreement
And no religion too                          because someone believing differently should not be allowed.
Imagine all the people living life in peace      after all the ones resisted are dead

Imagine no possessions                because we should be eating bacteria and toe jam
I wonder if you can                        no because what i create is mine
No need for greed or hunger        because we can just go get stuff other people worked for for nothing forcing others to work so it's slavery
A brotherhood of man                    just like the muslim brotherhood
Imagine all the people sharing all the world          especially the ones making stuff, making things work better


this song used to make me thing lennon was the anti-christ

mainecattlemother said:

It is 40 acres. Yes, we want to be good neighbors but her Grandson also works for another neighbor who has been knocking on everyone's door to buy everyone's land and now he is upset because we are all putting in irrigation and no one else will sell land to him. This land owner is also my daughters sponsor for confirmation so we are trying to keep the peace but we know he is the one paying for and farming the land. This is what makes me the most angry.

Click to expand...

Aye, aye, the unpredictability of the impressionable youth!

Maybe he is on a profit-share with the grandson on the 40 acres.

Considering that he is an employee and you are an outsider to the deal you have nothing to be ashamed of, your other neighbours will see through it!

Use the saved overhead expenses to improve/intensify your own irrigation project.  From own experiences, hired land is profitable but, improvements on your own property always belong to you alone!

knabe said:

Imagine there's no countries          because keeping people out who would do you harm is racist
It isn't hard to do                             especially if you are hitler
Nothing to kill or die for                  cause they are already dead and there is no more disagreement
And no religion too                          because someone believing differently should not be allowed.
Imagine all the people living life in peace      after all the ones resisted are dead

Imagine no possessions                because we should be eating bacteria and toe jam
I wonder if you can                        no because what i create is mine
No need for greed or hunger         because we can just go get stuff other people worked for for nothing forcing others to work so it's slavery
A brotherhood of man                    just like the muslim brotherhood
Imagine all the people sharing all the world          especially the ones making stuff, making things work better


this song used to make me thing lennon was the anti-christ

Click to expand...

More christ-like than than anti christ.  Lennon was a prophet of love.  Coincidentally, God is love.

A few kind replies would have been nice and some of you have been, but I was just looking for opinions not a bash session.  I dont think my hubby ever had the idea to sue but he is one that still believe a handshake is adequate and I keep telling him you cannot rely on a handshake any more.  Thanks everyone for your comments.

The one thougth that comes to mind for me, and I live in MN, is the unwritten rule/expectation on rented land that I grew up with of: if no contract exists stating otherwise is you leave the land the way you got it.  Meaning, if it was plowed when you got it, you plow it back.  If not, you are not required to, and could reasonably expect compensation if you did.  A reasonable discussion between the two parties involved if this applies may result favorably.

mainecattlemother said:

A few kind replies would have been nice and some of you have been, but I was just looking for opinions not a bash session.  I dont think my hubby ever had the idea to sue but he is one that still believe a handshake is adequate and I keep telling him you cannot rely on a handshake any more.  Thanks everyone for your comments.

Click to expand...

I don't see that anybody is being "bashed" here, except maybe John Lennon!

It would be nice if everybody's word or a handshake still meant what it used to...that's just not the world we live in anymore. I agree completely with Limiman...I don't think you could pay for advice that's any sounder than what he's offered. Yes...it's disappointing, and it's frustrating, and it can be aggravating, but that's just what it is, and you don't have the power to fix that. You do have the opportunity to learn from this situation, particularly when it comes to doing business with this family or individual. I tend to trust people in general until somebody gives me a reason not to...that doesn't mean I stop trusting people altogether, just that I probably don't trust that person in future dealings.

I say it's probably time to learn from the experience and move on.