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Online mark tenenbaum

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Re: Lincoln Red influence, continued
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2019, 08:18:06 PM »
I like thick easy keeping cattle that Show-like I had many years ago and not long ago till I had to sell off most of my cattle-That being said-I have the same respect for the ones here- Heres a link librarian to the rarest and stoutest OF ALL SHORTHORNS-they are the basis for the original grassfed cattle on the borders of England and Scotland-PLEASE HUMOR ME AND GO THROUGH THIS BREEDERS BLOG IN NORTHERN ENGLAND RE THE WHITEBRED SHORTHORN DISPLAYS AND LOOK AT THIS OLD BULL FROM BEHIND-HE BLOWS ALL OF THAT DUALSO CALLED NATIVE STUFF UP IN SMOKE AND THIS IS ONE OF ONLY A HANDFULL OF THESE CATTLE LEFT=SO DO THE COWS IN THIS HERD HES 10 or 12 IN THAT PICTURE AND LONG AS A NIGHT IN JAIL-SORRY-EVEN THE LATEST HI BW MAINE CROSS x CANADIAN ENGLISH CATTLE WONT TOUCH HIM-WANNA SAVE SOME CATTLE-THESE ARE SOME OF THE LAST IN EXISTENCE-AND THE HARDOING DUAL NO BUTT CATTLE WONT COME NEAR THESE CATTLE-AND THEY HAVENT CHANGED FOR 200 YEARS SO-ID LIKE YOUR FEEDBACK AFTER GOING THROUGH THIS MANS WEB SITE MEANWHILE EMBRYOS WENT TO CANADA https://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.co.uk/news/10352669.Whitebreds_will_be_first_in_Canada/ O0
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 09:49:36 AM by mark tenenbaum »

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Re: Lincoln Red influence, continued
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2019, 09:57:15 AM »
Test...getting error notices
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

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Re: Lincoln Red influence, continued
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2019, 10:00:31 AM »
Someone was importing Whitebred semen a while back, but I don't think it went anywhere. There is a Galloway breeder in Colorado who has a couple Blue Grey cows from Whitebred semen and I always wanted to try to get a 3/4 Galloway 1/4 Whitebred calf from him. But, honestly, I think it's just an example of the heterosis power derived from using a linebred strain of anything on another breed. Exactly like crossing Native Shorthorn to Lincoln Red Shorthorn. A true dual bull will show the masculine characteristic of bulls that breed feminine cows that will milk well. That does not translate to a muscular butt- that is a terminal trait one would expect in a breed just like Whitebred that is intended for beef production. But I really don't want to haggle about that, or about how some dual strains are scrawny while others are robust...that's an artifact of breeder selection.
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Re: Lincoln Red influence, continued
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2019, 10:01:27 AM »
I'll try to get a picture of Minn Max Leader so you can see the masculine phenotype that is consistently producing females with wide hips, big barrels and good udders, 1100-1300 lb range and feminine appearance. I will say that his sire, Cruachan Leader 551, (Max, dam and sire pictured) is not a bull I would expect to throw volume. He looks like the sort of Shorthorn I generally don't admire for grass type. On the other hand, he shows the sort of development the Leonhardt school of thought describes for cow makers. SO...we must assume judicious outcrossing the beef end of certain linebred dual strains (Haumont in this case) with maternally oriented older genetics is a recombination success. That the success is repeatable from the maternal line, crossed to various unrelated antique bulls points to volume prepotency of something behind the dam. But we all know this....what I'd like to see is a photo and some background on the sire of the 189th cow because I think she is key. Not genetically unique or magic- but representative of a repeatable combination based on generations of built in predictability. Although this thread is titled Lincoln Red influence, it's really about Minn Max Leader influence. I favor a Lincoln Red outcross (so far) for marbling and easy keeping- udders can be fixed easily enough. But it's just an outcross- it could be Galloway or Luing or anything hardy and correct for my purpose. The heritability of the modified phenotype is a matter of diligence.

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Re: Lincoln Red influence, continued
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2019, 10:03:07 AM »
Minn Max Leader, dam and sire. I'll try to get a recent photo soon. Also, when I was at beebe's, he had the nicest Blue Greys I've ever seen...going to a roan Native Shorthorn by one of his Galloway Synthetic bulls.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 10:09:08 AM by librarian »
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Online mark tenenbaum

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Re: Lincoln Red influence, continued
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2019, 10:30:45 AM »

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Re: Lincoln Red influence, continued
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2019, 11:44:03 AM »
Test...getting error notices  ?????? O0
Don't know...I kept getting internal error messages when I tried to post. Finally broke the post up into shorter pieces and it went through. But, it really wasn't that much of a novel I had written, compared to some, sondont know what went wrong. SP can be glitchy.
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Online mark tenenbaum

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Re: Lincoln Red influence, continued
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2019, 01:36:23 PM »
The cattle in the last link above  that went to Canada to the Galloway breeder  are from a different herd-I doubt there are over 200 whitebreds left in the area from whence they came-They all look very similar and frankly-are very usefull thick attractive cattle to me: more so than alot of Shorthorns I see of various persuasions.-I think the traditional blue greys and highland crosses probably remain the best cross of Shorthorns there is over there-especially for grass cattle Some crosses work better than others especially in terms of how they grade-You dont have to look hard at that group of white cows to see the calf on a young one almost as big as she is. And when you look at Thiemans Leader-TO ME-I see whitebred influence in him,pedigree or no pedigree I also like Lincolns for alot of the same reasons (udders withstanding)-your red bull looks really good to be developed on basic hay and forage O0
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 01:44:48 PM by mark tenenbaum »

Offline beebe

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Re: Lincoln Red influence, continued
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2019, 06:59:31 PM »
What is the associations positions on Whitebred Shorthorns?

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Re: Lincoln Red influence, continued
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2019, 07:00:01 PM »
Here are some pictures of DMH Minn Max Leader ET, taken in Beebe's pasture last summer
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Re: Lincoln Red influence, continued
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2019, 07:00:52 PM »
Max
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Re: Lincoln Red influence, continued
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2019, 07:02:02 PM »
Max- very sweet tempered
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Online mark tenenbaum

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Re: Lincoln Red influence, continued
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2019, 08:06:38 AM »
Hes deep and easy keeping looking Looks like the cattle I saw as a kid in the sixties-how do you think the calves would grade? If he was a heifer bull along with it-sire be usefull  O0

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Re: Lincoln Red influence, continued
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2019, 04:24:35 PM »
What is the associations positions on Whitebred Shorthorns?
I'm curious about this also
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Offline beebe

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Re: Lincoln Red influence, continued
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2019, 11:40:33 AM »
Hes deep and easy keeping looking Looks like the cattle I saw as a kid in the sixties-how do you think the calves would grade? If he was a heifer bull along with it-sire be usefull  O0

I never used him on heifers because I use Wagyu on my heifers.  I don't think it would be a problem, sure never had any problems on cows.  Yes I think useful is a good description.  I guess that is why  I use him.

 

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