Mini angus

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HAFarm

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Dec 31, 2008
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Thanks for the responses.  I guess as a pure bred Angus guy mixing in with other breeds isn't something we would do with any breed, it just doesn't make sense for our program.  But different strokes for different folks. 

Lazy G I can't argue that they finish faster but what was their finished weights  Were those studied half, quarter or whole lowlines?  Thanks for the info I am always tryring to learn.
 

TJ

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HAFarm said:
Thanks for the responses.  I guess as a pure bred Angus guy mixing in with other breeds isn't something we would do with any breed, it just doesn't make sense for our program.  But different strokes for different folks. 

Lazy G I can't argue that they finish faster but what was their finished weights  Were those studied half, quarter or whole lowlines?  Thanks for the info I am always tryring to learn.

I can understand that if you raise American Angus because the AAA will not register Lowline Angus.  If you want to register with them exclusively, you will have to stick to American Angus.

The thing is, I can sell a 1/2 Lowline Angus X 1/2 Angus animal as Angus, because that is exactly what they are... commercial buyers know that they are Angus & I can even give them a registration certificate.  Soon, the buyers will even be able to register the offspring out of those 1/2 blood bulls, which they can't do with an Angus bull.  

Like Lazy G mentioned, when selling the steers, they are Angus too, because they are.  Probably Lowline Angus are more pure Angus, as a whole, than any Angus cattle anywhere in the world. 

Here is the NDSU data on the steers...  As you can see, they were 1/2 bloods... Lowline sired out of commercial heifers...

 

 
 

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LazyGLowlines

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HAFarm said:
Thanks for the responses.  I guess as a pure bred Angus guy mixing in with other breeds isn't something we would do with any breed, it just doesn't make sense for our program.  But different strokes for different folks. 

There are alot of purebred angus guys that are changing their minds about lowlines.  We got a call last night from one of them who judged our cattle at a fair last weekend. He was so impressed by the thickness and uniformity of our cattle that he bought semen from our bull Bluey.  He's got alot of people giving him a hard time about it, too.  He just tells them he likes them thick, and from what he's seen from Bluey he's gonna give it a try. 
 

TJ

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^^^ Exactly.  Lowline cattle will add thickness & it is evident even to an untrained eye.  My 1/2 blood Bluey that I sold to Lenhard Angus, is a wide topped rascal & it starts right behind the shoulders & goes all the way back & it flows down into his lower quarter too.  I saw a 6 month old fullblood Doc Holliday bull calf today that may be as good & as thick as any fullblood bull that I have seen... I was very happy to see him & he will be hitting to show circuit this fall.  If a person wants width & thickness, then Lowline cattle are the way to go.  I was talking to an Angus breeder this AM who told me that his 1/2 blood Lowline heifers were only slightly lighter than his full sized heifers at weaning.  Why?  More width & guts.  And he said that they were only a few inches shorter.   
 

Rustynail

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Probably Lowline Angus are more pure Angus, as a whole, than any Angus cattle anywhere in the world. 

::)    Also if you breed a Thoroughbred to s Shetland Pony you will get a more pure Thoroughbred, because that is what they were like along time ago before the breed advanced.
 

TJ

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Rustynail said:
Probably Lowline Angus are more pure Angus, as a whole, than any Angus cattle anywhere in the world. 

::)    Also if you breed a Thoroughbred to s Shetland Pony you will get a more pure Thoroughbred, because that is what they were like along time ago before the breed advanced.

#1.  I doubt that Thoroughbreds & Shetland Ponies were one and the same within the last 40-80 years.  Lowlines have Angus pedigrees that can be traced all the way back to Scotland & the 1600's.     

#2.  I can name Angus breeders who will tell you the same thing that I posted.   

#3.  The ONLY reason why Lowline Angus are so pure, is because they were a part of a Govt. owned Angus herd, at a research station in Australia.  The herd was completely closed to outside genetics in the mid 1900's.  However, shortly after that, the continental breeds were imported into the US & Canada & Holsteins also were readily available.    ;)         

#4.  "Advanced"...  Does that include "extremely creative outcrossing"?    ;)   ;D   (lol)  (clapping)       
 

Rustynail

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I am sure that your accusations of outcrossing is a great marketing device for you.  I am also posative that is has happened, just not on the scale some people would use to their advantage.  There a many honest, hardworking  Black Angus breeders who have been in it since the breed started who have not done "creative outcrossing" , and it is pretty small of some to make wide blanket statements that covers an entire breed to try to boost sales.  Of course that's the way the world is, and you can promote your toy cattle any way you want.
 

TJ

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Rustynail said:
I am sure that your accusations of outcrossing is a great marketing device for you.  I am also posative that is has happened, just not on the scale some people would use to their advantage.  There a many honest, hardworking  Black Angus breeders who have been in it since the breed started who have not done "creative outcrossing" , and it is pretty small of some to make wide blanket statements that covers an entire breed to try to boost sales.  Of course that's the way the world is, and you can promote your toy cattle any way you want.

"I am also posative that is has happened"
     
Yep, a lot of people think that, including some honest, hard working, Black Angus breeders themselves.  I know some of those honest, hard working Black Angus breeders & they are the ones saying it.  That is why I don't see why it is such a big deal to you.  It's sure not a big deal to them.             


"There are many honest, hardworking  Black Angus breeders who have been in it since the breed started who have not done "creative outcrossing" , and it is pretty small of some to make wide blanket statements that covers an entire breed to try to boost sales."


It's pretty small for an Angus breeder to say that?  WOW!  I'll be sure to tell them... I think that they are going to be shocked.   (lol)

I never said that there were not honest, hard working Black Angus breeders & I'm sure that many have indeed done the best that they can.  But, what about every single straw of semen & ever animal that they ever purchased from another breeder who bought those genetics from another & on & on & on & on?  You see over the course of time, and especially with the heavy use of AI & especially with heavy use of "popular" AI sires & "breed changers", the blanket can eventually get pretty wide... or maybe even extremely wide.  I'm sure that most have tried to do everything the honest way & I never said that they didn't.  But, if you look at pictures of Angus in the 1950's & Angus in the 1980's/1990's... it's painfully obvious that something happened.  I have an Angus breeder friend who has a 2,200+ lb. Angus cow.  How did they get that big in 30 - 40 years, when nothing was anywhere close to that size, 30- 40 years ago?  We could always DNA test them & see... that's what the Lowline Angus do...  ;)    


"Of course that's the way the world is, and you can promote your toy cattle any way you want."


The world likes to call people, & things that they don't like, derogatory names too.  As for me, I'm just going to keep on selling these "toys" to Angus & Red Angus breeders.  In fact, we've spoken with 2 customers, within the last week, who are going to AI breed approx. a combined 500 head (not Lowline females) this year to Lowline or Lowline cross bulls.  They are both serious cattlemen & neither think that crossing with Lowlines will result in "toy cattle".  If it makes you feel better, I guess you can keep on calling them "toy cattle", but it will not hurt my feelings because I know better...     
         

 

WWS

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I was curious as to the asscoiations registration requirements because i read in an earlier post how you could give a producer a registration certificate on an animal that wasnt purebred and yet you still call it angus.  I was just curious as to the requirements cause the wording seems like it is just like the Simmental, Maine, or Limmy associations in the you can register halfbloods.
 

TJ

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Wright-Way Simmental said:
I was curious as to the asscoiations registration requirements because i read in an earlier post how you could give a producer a registration certificate on an animal that wasnt purebred and yet you still call it angus.  I was just curious as to the requirements cause the wording seems like it is just like the Simmental, Maine, or Limmy associations in the you can register halfbloods.

Sorry for the confusion.

Lowline cattle are 100% Angus cattle to begin with.  They are Angus.  Lowline cattle are not a composite breed... they have a 100% Angus pedigree.  Pedigrees for all 3 Angus breeds (Angus, Red Angus & Lowline Angus) can all be listed on a Lowline calf's registration paper too.  So even though a calf may only be registered as a 1/2 Lowline out of an Angus or Red Angus parent... the registration papers will show that it is an animal with a 100% Angus pedigree.  With that said, a Lowline crossed with Chi, Tarentaise, Maine, Shorthorn, Simmi, Limmi, Galloway, etc., can also result in registered 1/2 bloods, but they will not have a 100% Angus pedigree, so those shouldn't be called Angus... they are technically Angus composites or Angus cross though.                 

When you breed Simmental, Maine or Limmi's to Angus you end up with 50% Angus, because Simmental, Maine & Limmi's are not Angus cattle.  You would have a 50% Angus Composite, but not a 100% Angus pedigree.                       

If Lowline cattle were not 100% Angus, with Angus pedigrees tracing all the back to Scotland & the 1600's, you couldn't & shouldn't call them Angus, but they are Angus & they are as pure any Angus cattle that you will ever see, with the pedigrees to back it all up.   

 
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