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Author Topic: Money Man  (Read 3770 times)

Offline CAB

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Money Man
« on: March 17, 2008, 09:04:53 AM »
Is it just me having bad luck or has anyone else had much trouble calving Money Man? I bred a half a rack to heifers, got 4 out of 5 stuck, have had 3, lost 2, had one 40 lb premi. The heifers were Body score 5s weighing approx 1300lbs, no HW,HS, FF, FT, or Sugar Ray in their pedigrees. I have noticed that for as old of a bull that he is, his birth weight epd is changing quite a bit. How does a -5.9BW epd in the amaa compare to a -2lb An epd/ I needed to put this up to make sure that some people don't think that Money Man is a walk in the park. I feel bad for the heifers B/C I bred that way.

Offline Jill

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Re: Money Man
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2008, 09:14:10 AM »
We bred 2 had 2 stick got 2 heifers (clapping).  The 1st was on a heifer that we showed last year so up until Sept she was fed pretty heavy and then cut to 3 lb per day after that,  and it weighed 72, the 2nd was on a 12 year old cow and weighed 90 pounds, both calved without assistance.  For me those as acceptable weights, I don't want the 50 pounders.
He is an old bull, but I don't think he saw a lot of out of herd use until Tara Rooney showed the 1st one that had so much success in the ring.  In the past couple of years he has had a lot of promotion and in my mind at least that would account for the change in EPD's, this is the 1st year we have used him.  Sorry to hear your are having problems, we are sure happy with ours.

Offline red

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Re: Money Man
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2008, 09:15:26 AM »
I used him on 2 cows & both stuck. Haven't had them yet, the first due next week.

Red
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Offline justme

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Re: Money Man
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2008, 09:19:34 AM »
6 out of 7 of ours stuck.  All heifers or smaller framed cows.  Heaviest was 78 pounds.  No problems at all.  No idea why you got a 40 pound calf...
I'd use him Ali on heifers any day.  Just my opinion.  Ours all look great.  Our heard bull is even a Money Man, and his calves are looking better than we ever imagined.

Guess I'm confused with your post CAB.  How is it Money Man's fault you got a premi of 40 pounds?  Things happen.  OR are you upset of semen quality?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2008, 09:25:29 AM by justme »
"If the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off!" Larry the Cable Guy

Offline knabe

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Re: Money Man
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2008, 10:07:28 AM »
this is a topic i have been trying to see get talked about and not just MJM.

in herds where BW has been selected for and heifers kept that have bw's under a certain range, instead of keeping the one's that were say 100 or above, BW would seem to be somewhat fixed.  when a bull that was used in that herd, now sees activity in other herds with different inputs, especially show cattle, and perhaps different feeding, particularly in the last 3 months of gestation, would one not expect to see a change?

the reason i'm asking in general, and realizing that a sample set of one is really pathetic, i had a 124 pound bull calf out of total package, a heifer the previous year out of the same cow at 99 lbs, she just popped out in about 20 minutes.

question, are people culling hard enough on heifers with high birth weights at all?  or just keeping them, or are they selling them?  is yearling weight epd's around 100 just asking for it on BW?

Offline SWMO

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Re: Money Man
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2008, 10:27:33 AM »
We've had five money man calves this spring from 1st and 2nd calf heifers.  First one was 12 days early and last one was one day late based on gestation table.  We helped one smaller framed heifer with a bull calf.  Not an exceptionally hard pull.  All the calves were acceptable in weight and body shape.  No big shoulders or hips.  I would venture to guess that a portion of his calving ease if the fact that he calves earlier gestation wise rather than later.

Have a sweet blue roan out of Money Man and a Bookie 2nd calf heifer.  Time will tell.

Offline CAB

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Re: Money Man
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2008, 10:31:01 AM »
Knabe that's the reason that I listed that these heifers shouldn't have that big BW laying back in their pedigree to jump out and catch you by surprise.
  Gidg, I'm not really complaining about the premi. I know that the bull can't help that and I also realize that my numbers are so minimal that they mean nothing. I would rather have the premi's than the dead ones. Money Man has been touted as the calving ease king and I wondered if anyone else was having my luck? My BWs haven't been awful, in fact all of the calves have been bulls, which possibly if they were heifers, it may have been different. Both of the calves that I lost were manageable, but I would have to say mismanaged on my part or slipped through the 4 hour time ck schedule. 1st one took too long, the one Sat morning got the calf out half way then hiplocked. I thought that we would save the calf and lose a sweet heifer, but someone took care of the heifer and the calf was under too much stress. The 1st one had a bigger shoulder chest area and I would have estimated him @ 75lbs. 2nd one, I would estimate 90 to 95 lbs and as I said hips, easy pull, just bad timing, luck whatever, but I just don't want people to be unaware that there are troubles and nobody say anything about it. I'm not mad about any of it, I just am wondering if there is really a Maine bull out there that a person commercially should breed to heifers?
    What are F-1 Longhorns cattle worth? LOL.

Offline justme

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Re: Money Man
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2008, 11:13:20 AM »
sorry about your luck CAB.  Not knowing the heifers breedings, and pelvic measurements I don't know what to tell you.  I'm a believer in him.  Love the calves, and love how they have been coming out of him and his son.

Knabe...we are pretty hard on our heifers.  Like I've stated before, I'm hear alone most of the day with no help close by, they have to be able to pop those babies out by thereselves, or a fairly easy pull.  I'll be the first to admit...I help anytime I can.  I'd rather get it out than sit and worry and wait.  I'll give a heifer a benefit of a doubt, but depending on her genetics (which I'm pretty selective on) and her situation will determine her fate.  Wow that was a hodge podge answer hope you understand it! (lol)
"If the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off!" Larry the Cable Guy

Offline olsun

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Re: Money Man
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2008, 11:33:51 AM »
We used money Man last year on a few heifers . 1 c-sec so far, and 4 pulls. One hard. calves have ran from 80 to 95 pounds. I really like the calves, but will not use him  on heifers again.  Will use him on cows. This is not the bulls fault, it is mine.

Offline justme

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Re: Money Man
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2008, 11:48:22 AM »
Guess we have to remember, no bull is perfect.  Cow genetics come into effect along with pelvic measurements.  Those weights don't sound that large, but didn't see the calf and don't know the circumstances.  I personally know Major's and they are really honest people.  I cann't imagine them lying about there weights ect.  Sounds like bad luck and it sucks.

He's my go to bull for my heifers.  Just seems like he's clicking so far.
"If the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off!" Larry the Cable Guy

Offline red

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Re: Money Man
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2008, 12:03:16 PM »
I guess w/ my one cow I'll just be thrilled to have a calf under 100 w/ him. I know her genetics play a huge part of the equation.

Red
"People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care"
" Some succeed because they are destined to,
but most succeed because they are determined to."
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Offline CAB

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Re: Money Man
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2008, 12:45:44 PM »
I know he has some good offspring, but the dead ones never look good. My premi is actually really surprising me. He'll be a month old Easter Sunday. He'll probably tip the scale around 65-70lbs. Has a very cool disposition. I think Major's are great people also and don't think that they are or did misrepresent the bull. I think it's just a little bad luck on our part. Like I said bad timing, but on the other hand we don't ignore the cows during the nights and whatnot. Those heifers may need an easy tug. Don't want someone be lose anymore than they have to. i won't use him on heifers again. I should say also that all of the other bulls that we used on heifers last year have calved unassisted to Marbler & an Angus bull that VanDykes raised.

Offline Telos

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Re: Money Man
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2008, 05:50:36 PM »

From my experience (not with Money Man in particular), when you deal with Maine genetics we still are seeing the bws not as consistent as perhaps they should be. It takes generation after generation to fix this trait. There were some hard calving bulls in the beginning before we bred them up.

From the reports I'm getting, ZNT Triple X looks to be as consistent as anything out there. Yes, I have an interest in the bull , but call Zane Mai at ZNT or Scott Star at Bull Barn Genetics and ask them for yourself. Red has only had one and doesn't count because of numbers, but her's wieighed 72lbs. I believe.

Jack Jabara

Offline kanshow

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Re: Money Man
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2008, 06:20:09 PM »
Half of the calving genetics - calf size, MCE, etc come from the cow so yes some people could get along fine with any bull where others better be using a longhorn or Jersey as a heifer freshener.  Also EPDs are only as good as the information provided to arrive at them plus they are an estimate at best..  the EPD may change and accuracy goes up with more data.

ETA:   We were thinking about Money Man on one of our red simmi cows.   What does he do on fronts, thickness, etc?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2008, 06:21:25 PM by kanshow »

Offline justme

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Re: Money Man
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2008, 06:39:42 PM »
I have a Money Man heifer that just had a CTR Success bull calf, our clean up bull is a Money man, and have had a few calves out of him.  I really like him.  From looking at Major's cattle and my own, I think he'll clean the necks up.  Our heifer has a beautful neck, very clean, and beautifully made shoulders.  I've never seen him on a Simmi, but it may be a neat cross. 

On thickness...our  bull is built like a freight train.  68# birthweight and thickest bull we've ever owned.  He's a little short, but we don't eat the legs here at our house.  We wanted some downsizing anyways.  Our young calves came small, but had lots of bone.  Really thickening up quick.  Jill has a beautiful Money Man heifer at her place.  Seen it at a couple days old then when I picked Ruby up.  Growing like crazy.  Hope this helps.
"If the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off!" Larry the Cable Guy

 

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