Montezuma Shorthorn test

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aj

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I read about a pen of shorties fed at Montezuma Ks that cost of gained .61 cents. Does anyone know partics on this deal? Were they Terry's or Keiths or Marty's?
 

sue

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AJ
You should probably comment on the "normal' cost/lb gain ... Sounds like this pen is under 20cents or  more ?? Nice post lets try to stay positive. If you donttttt  know what it costs to feeeeeeedddd then please donot comment.
breeders of this caliber sell bulls right off the farm and understand the bottom line
Nice job who ever has this pen.

 

PhilMcKracken

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AJ
I believe the pen referenced was our set of fall steers that were harvested in March.  The closeout cost of gain was $.62, but I don't know for sure what the average for the yard was at the time.  I do know that the owner of the yard said that there were a lot of feeders at the time that would have been really pleased with $.72.  I don't have all the specifics on this computer, but I think they gained ~4.1 lbs/day and converted between 5.1 and 5.2 lbs and were on feed around 180 days.  This was the whole of our fall male calves that were not kept for our fall bull group, so there were some odds and ends in there.  I think the beginning weight spread was 150-200 lbs, so I thought they came together real nice.  Its always interesting how cattle will feed.

Scott
 

trevorgreycattleco

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lovingfarms said:
AJ
I believe the pen referenced was our set of fall steers that were harvested in March.  The closeout cost of gain was $.62, but I don't know for sure what the average for the yard was at the time.  I do know that the owner of the yard said that there were a lot of feeders at the time that would have been really pleased with $.72.  I don't have all the specifics on this computer, but I think they gained ~4.1 lbs/day and converted between 5.1 and 5.2 lbs and were on feed around 180 days.  This was the whole of our fall male calves that were not kept for our fall bull group, so there were some odds and ends in there.  I think the beginning weight spread was 150-200 lbs, so I thought they came together real nice.  Its always interesting how cattle will feed.

Scott

Scott, I believe you got something there. What was the breeding on that pen? Any semen available from those bulls? Wanna trade? ;)
 

PhilMcKracken

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AJ-
I think that pen caught the low of the cost of gain and the high end of the market.  $.62 to feed, out at $.96, not hard to make a living.  Just wish it would have been a larger pen.  Oh well, such as life.

TG-
These steers were all out of Double Duty 6294 sons or grandsons.  The mothers were pretty much bred the same, may have been some Legacy 23G daughters in there.  I would have to go back through them.  As far as the sires go,  we have semen on these bulls, you might take a look at our website (www.lovingfarms.com)

I am glad this topic got brought up.  I wish there was a better way to feasibly measure the aspect of feed efficiency, I know there are small feeding projects to try and quantify efficiency, intake and cost of gain.  This is nice for a cross section, but until \thousands of individuals can be put in a data base, it doesn't mean a lot.  Just a couple of cents,

Scott
 

Okotoks

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Those are some nice looking cows on your website. What size female works best in your area?
 

Will

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Our feed lot guy told me this morning to expect gain to cost 90 cents this winter if corn continues at the current rate.
 

sue

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lovingfarms said:
AJ-
I think that pen caught the low of the cost of gain and the high end of the market.  $.62 to feed, out at $.96, not hard to make a living.  Just wish it would have been a larger pen.  Oh well, such as life.

TG-
These steers were all out of Double Duty 6294 sons or grandsons.  The mothers were pretty much bred the same, may have been some Legacy 23G daughters in there.  I would have to go back through them.  As far as the sires go,  we have semen on these bulls, you might take a look at our website (www.lovingfarms.com)

I am glad this topic got brought up.  I wish there was a better way to feasibly measure the aspect of feed efficiency, I know there are small feeding projects to try and quantify efficiency, intake and cost of gain.  This is nice for a cross section, but until \thousands of individuals can be put in a data base, it doesn't mean a lot.   Just a couple of cents,

Scott
So this kind of breeding dosent happen over night. Scott you should comment more about how you made it to this point. congratulations
 

PhilMcKracken

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I apprecitate your comment on the cows on the website.  We have worked to produce cows that are 5-5.5 frame and 1200-1300 lb mature cows.  Now in saying that, I will say that some of the older cows are a little bigger, and some of the youngest genetics will be smaller in frame or weight or both. I think when we went to grass this spring the whole group (~200), were just a tick over 1300 lbs.  Is this optimum?  I don't know, but we have seen major strides in efficiency of cows at this size.  It just takes less of our western Ks short grass to maintain a smaller cow than it does a larger one.  I think a key focus in utilizing smaller frame cows, at least for us, was making sure we could maintain a 600+ lb. weaning weight (no creep) in our bull calves and 500+ lb in the female calves.  That doesn't happen with every cow, but that is a goal and an element to cull on, and an area to constantly improve on.  We just weaned the heaviest calf crop I can remember, and the females are better condition than I can remember at weaning time especially the younger cows.  This was after one of the hottest and driest summers in recent memory.

I like to think that pushing for lower maintenance, easier fleshing females has yielded more efficient feeding results in the feedyard.  I am not sure there is a direct correlation, simply because we haven't made as large of improvements in our gains and conversions as we have in fleshing ability in cows.  We have had steers gain 4-4.1 lbs/day and convert 5.1-5.2 on the same feeding lengths for probably ten years or more without much change.  Thats what I was saying in an earlier post about wishing there was a way to more feasibly define the genetics that will improve feeding performance.  I think there is room for great improvement when we can identify the genetics that give us quicker more efficient gain, until then I think our numbers compete with the best of the commercial feeding industry. 

Scott

 

aj

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I also think that the cow size thing should include the "growth curve" discussion. Some cattle grow well and then mature early and stop growing. Some cattle grow well and then they grow and grow and grow and I think this is where you get your 1800 pound cows. I think Lovings have a great program cause they set paramiters and they hammer and hammer away at getting there. Then they they hammer some more. jmo
 

sue

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LIke I was saying-

breeders of this caliber sell bulls right off the farm and understand the bottom line
Nice job who ever has this pen.  <party>

Scott -  from what I have been told your herd is very uniform.
 

firesweepranch

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lovingfarms said:
AJ-
I think that pen caught the low of the cost of gain and the high end of the market.  $.62 to feed, out at $.96, not hard to make a living.  Just wish it would have been a larger pen.  Oh well, s
I am glad this topic got brought up.  I wish there was a better way to feasibly measure the aspect of feed efficiency, I know there are small feeding projects to try and quantify efficiency, intake and cost of gain.  This is nice for a cross section, but until \thousands of individuals can be put in a data base, it doesn't mean a lot.   Just a couple of cents,

Scott
Funny you bring this up; I just got back from our South West Field day put on by the Extension (Missouri University) and they are currently doing a study with Relative Feed Intake (RFI). They have determined that cattle with a negative RFI (meaning they take less feed to reach the same gains/market weight) have a heritability of that trait that is about 20%. I know I am not saying this right (my notes are in the car), but basically they said it is an inherited trait equal to growth and ADG, so something we can focus on and improve. The hardest part is to identify those that have a negative RFI to select those genetics to reproduce. Unless you measure all feed intake, you really have no clue who has the best RFI. But there is information out there about it. Exciting stuff!They are collecting data on bulls and said that some bulls will start displaying this as a new EPD number!
 

PhilMcKracken

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aj said:
I also think that the cow size thing should include the "growth curve" discussion. Some cattle grow well and then mature early and stop growing. Some cattle grow well and then they grow and grow and grow and I think this is where you get your 1800 pound cows. I think Lovings have a great program cause they set paramiters and they hammer and hammer away at getting there. Then they they hammer some more. jmo


We have tried to get away from bulls, and really females for that matter, that are quick growers and then never stop.  In saying that though, I know we are using bulls that are really quick to weaning and then the  growth curve really slows and we have used bulls that are a little slower to weaning and rapidly accelerate to yearling and mature at a size we can use.  I think both types of curve have the respective places, the Jazz line is an example of the quick and Legacy 23g would be the latter.  Like them both, extremely hard to compare at weaning time.  Along that line, we have combined the two and really like the results.

As far as setting parameters and sticking to them and so on, most would probably just call us hard headed.  (lol)

Sue-I am not sure they will ever be as consitent and uniform as I would like them to be.  We are always pushing for that "peas in a pod" and I think we see some of that in sire groups.  In this breed, it is not as hard to find those bulls that phenotypically look like what we need, but getting them to breed consistently and produce an end product that is marketable is a little more difficult.

Firesweep-Those studies are very interesting to me and we have to be able to start somewhere in identifying genetics that can yield some big improvements.
 

aj

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I always wondered if cattle effiecent on a grain ration is the same as effiecent on grass? There maybe a difference in type here also......I don't know. In general a frame 8 steer may be more effient to a certain point than a frame 4 steer mainly because they do grow and grow and grow and grow and grow and grow and grow and grow. But then I read about lines of say Angus cattle that will feed out 100$ cheaper than other Angus counterparts. Is this the new frontier as far as genetic improvement is concerned?
 

garybob

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aj said:
I read about a pen of shorties fed at Montezuma Ks that cost of gained .61 cents. Does anyone know partics on this deal? Were they Terry's or Keiths or Marty's?
Sammy Richardson, Brian Banzet, Rick Leone, Troy Smith, and I can't remember who else, had a smaller group up there at HY-Plains, too,that done about the same (62 cents).

GB
 

JoeBnTN

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lovingfarms said:
aj said:
I also think that the cow size thing should include the "growth curve" discussion. Some cattle grow well and then mature early and stop growing. Some cattle grow well and then they grow and grow and grow and I think this is where you get your 1800 pound cows. I think Lovings have a great program cause they set paramiters and they hammer and hammer away at getting there. Then they they hammer some more. jmo


We have tried to get away from bulls, and really females for that matter, that are quick growers and then never stop.  In saying that though, I know we are using bulls that are really quick to weaning and then the  growth curve really slows and we have used bulls that are a little slower to weaning and rapidly accelerate to yearling and mature at a size we can use.  I think both types of curve have the respective places, the Jazz line is an example of the quick and Legacy 23g would be the latter.  Like them both, extremely hard to compare at weaning time.  Along that line, we have combined the two and really like the results.

As far as setting parameters and sticking to them and so on, most would probably just call us hard headed.  (lol)

Sue-I am not sure they will ever be as consitent and uniform as I would like them to be.  We are always pushing for that "peas in a pod" and I think we see some of that in sire groups.  In this breed, it is not as hard to find those bulls that phenotypically look like what we need, but getting them to breed consistently and produce an end product that is marketable is a little more difficult.

Firesweep-Those studies are very interesting to me and we have to be able to start somewhere in identifying genetics that can yield some big improvements.
Scott,

I'd be interested to know if there were any 23G dams represented, as we found these cattle to be among the best feeding cattle we ever owned.  I don't know if you knew it, but several years ago when we had 23G, we ended up with a steer calf at Rex Tribbett's that he added to his Indiana Steer Feed out group.  That calf blew everything away for 112 days and had a profit factor that was nearly unbelievable.  The only problem was it snowed for about 10 days and they were late getting his group harvested, so he got penalized for being too big.  If I remember correctly (and it has been a while), he harvested at over 1300 lbs and 14.5 months, as  YG 2, Choice, with an ADG over 4 and feed efficiency.  around 5-5.25.  That's what we found consistently - 1200-1259 weight steers at 14 months, almost always YG 2's and Choice grade. 

IF you ever want the story on the bull - how we found him, etc. let me know.  I still think he may have been the best all around bull we ever used AND one of the best kept secrets in the breed.  Anyway,congrats on the calves - that's what we all should strive for.
 

sue

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aj said:
Cool, I didn't know Rick had any in the thing.
shhhhh. peakview ranch,CO.  We dont need any one else  knowing  about another really good shorthorn breeder lost in the " sticks"just minding the business of  making a good beef cow... pm me if you want my notes.....
 
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