Steer Planet - Show Steers and Club Calves Forum

Steer Planet Chat => The Big Show => Topic started by: librarian on October 02, 2021, 02:28:46 PM

Title: More on Native
Post by: librarian on October 02, 2021, 02:28:46 PM
I just bought a Native Dual Purpose bull from Haumont in Nebraska. I'm getting a few females together from  different Native/Heritage breeders.This North Dakota CSB Maid of Promise cow is going to be my foundation female. Thats an early April heifer calf on her.
Title: Re: More on Native
Post by: librarian on October 02, 2021, 02:45:58 PM
Anyone who has not visited Haumont really should.
Title: Re: More on Native
Post by: R180 on October 03, 2021, 01:32:17 PM
Anyone who has not visited Haumont really should.
Whatís his breeding? Reg#?
Title: Re: More on Native
Post by: librarian on October 03, 2021, 02:32:17 PM
4191727. Check out progeny.
Edit...this is the wrong reg #. The correct # is 4191717.
Title: Re: More on Native
Post by: idalee on October 04, 2021, 10:29:39 AM
This must be the wrong registration number because 4191727 has Maine up close. 
Title: Re: More on Native
Post by: librarian on October 04, 2021, 08:13:55 PM
This must be the wrong registration number because 4191727 has Maine up close.
Thanks, idalee, I made a typing error. The correct reg# is 4191717. Tattoo 2011. Iím going to fix it in the post above.
Title: Re: More on Native
Post by: oakview on October 05, 2021, 10:58:13 AM
I'm interesting in how the general Shorthorn breeder perceives the value or usefulness of the Native breeding.  I used it 50 years ago and have used some again in the past 6 or 8 years.  Just want to see how others look at it. 
Title: Re: More on Native
Post by: knabe on October 05, 2021, 07:47:23 PM
what are the most successful shorthorn breeders that have penetration into the commercial market and what is range of number of bulls sold to commercial market?


any commercial producers out there using shorthorns with retained ownership?
Title: Re: More on Native
Post by: beebe on October 05, 2021, 08:07:48 PM
what are the most successful shorthorn breeders that have penetration into the commercial market and what is range of number of bulls sold to commercial market?


any commercial producers out there using shorthorns with retained ownership?
I probably don't count because I produce grass finished beef instead of commodity beef.  I am not using show winning genetics as my goal is a frame score 4 1250 pound cow.  I have some interesting young bulls from the Sparkle cows.  Any way I am using a DMH Minnesota Max son out of an Albaugh cow that is producing grass finished animals at less than two years.
Title: Re: More on Native
Post by: knabe on October 05, 2021, 09:13:29 PM
i wouldn't call cattle that gave good premiums commodity cattle.


any commercial producers that use shorthorn that excel on premiums?
Title: Re: More on Native
Post by: beebe on October 05, 2021, 10:07:17 PM
i wouldn't call cattle that gave good premiums commodity cattle.


any commercial producers that use shorthorn that excel on premiums?
Well if I used the wrong adjective to differentiate between grass finished beef and and other beef I stand corrected.  If $2 dollars a pound on the hoof counts as a premium then I think the answer is yes.  If you are just talking about cattle that are sold grade and yield then I don't know.  Like I said I probably don't count because I am doing this differently.
Title: Re: More on Native
Post by: librarian on October 06, 2021, 09:07:21 AM
I am using Native dual purpose because, like beebe, my purpose is grass finishing. My belief is that Shorthorn genetics, and the genetics of other Native dual purpose breeds, are more flexible in their ability to balance the many energy trade offs involved in milk production and resource availability. Itís not just pounds of meat that the grass finisher and direct marketer must produce, itís pounds of milk to raise pounds of calves calves without supplementation. Good old dual purpose A2A2 milk from a cow that can maintain her condition during lactation without artificial inputs is the grass finishers best source of development in the calf. Then we have to keep that milk flesh going forward into fine grained tender muscle.
Title: Re: More on Native
Post by: librarian on October 06, 2021, 09:15:28 AM
To me Hubís Director is a good example of a Native Dual Purpose Shorthorn type. Could you call him a beef type-No. A dairy type-no. Those with experience, how would he have worked for producing low input high butterfat producing cows?
Title: Re: More on Native
Post by: librarian on October 06, 2021, 09:28:33 AM
This bull, for example, looks like a beef type Shorthorn, but would his daughters produce beef like the Hubís daughters. I seriously doubt it, unless he were crossed on dual type cows. This is the wheel most Heritage Breeders are reinventing...a tradition of crossing beef type on dual type. It works. But you canít make it work without the old dual purpose genetics, in my opinion. As usual, Shorthorn is all about the cows.
Title: Re: More on Native
Post by: oakview on October 06, 2021, 10:18:30 AM
I think there are a lot of native cattle of "beef" lineage that have much more usefulness than the roan "Scotch type" bull pictured.  I wonder how some of the current more moderate, easier fleshing Shorthorn bulls would compare to the better Shorthorn bulls of the past.  I think it would be very interesting to see a side by side comparison of, say, JSF Palermo with Kenmar President 26A. 
Title: Re: More on Native
Post by: librarian on October 06, 2021, 10:54:59 AM
I think there are a lot of native cattle of "beef" lineage that have much more usefulness than the roan "Scotch type" bull pictured.  I wonder how some of the current more moderate, easier fleshing Shorthorn bulls would compare to the better Shorthorn bulls of the past.  I think it would be very interesting to see a side by side comparison of, say, JSF Palermo with Kenmar President 26A.
oakview, you are very right about that. Village Beau would be an extreme example of Heritagerois..sorry...I donít know about Palermo, but there was, to me, an extra nice 26A son down at Haumont.
Title: Re: More on Native
Post by: aj on October 15, 2021, 02:00:14 PM
What color was the 26a son.
Title: Re: More on Native
Post by: Dale on October 17, 2021, 06:11:20 AM
Haumont family has long produced cattle with utility.  Cattle bred at Haumont's have predictable EPD's (something like Keith Lauer) with strength in $CEZ, $BMI, CEM, Stay, Marbling, Milk, etc. that are what many Shorthorns traditionally have been.  With his COI at nearly 10% your bull should breed more predictably than most of the "double cross" bulls that are widely available.  A breeding piece, he is. 
Title: Re: More on Native
Post by: librarian on October 19, 2021, 07:05:40 PM
What color was the 26a son.
Hi aj, he is roan. The resolution is not good on this photo, but you can get the gist of how correct he is.
Title: Re: More on Native
Post by: librarian on October 19, 2021, 07:25:52 PM
Haumont family has long produced cattle with utility.  Cattle bred at Haumont's have predictable EPD's (something like Keith Lauer) with strength in $CEZ, $BMI, CEM, Stay, Marbling, Milk, etc. that are what many Shorthorns traditionally have been.  With his COI at nearly 10% your bull should breed more predictably than most of the "double cross" bulls that are widely available.  A breeding piece, he is.
Thank you. He is a fine fellow and just a pleasure to have around.
Title: Re: More on Native
Post by: librarian on October 19, 2021, 08:15:20 PM
What color was the 26a son.
Hi aj, he is roan. The resolution is not good on this photo, but you can get the gist of how correct he is.
aj, here is what the Cat 20 bull, Felix, is looking like now. And a picture of his paternal half sib sister. These are both Native also.
Title: Re: More on Native
Post by: Duncraggan on October 20, 2021, 10:24:28 AM
Nice cattle!
Title: Re: More on Native
Post by: librarian on October 21, 2021, 12:41:22 PM
Nice cattle!
Thanks, Duncraggon. Iím going to sell the Cat 20 bull now that I have the Haumont bull. I can keep those Leader genetics going thru his half sister. Felix is about as grassy as a Shorthorn can be. Since I cross a lot on Galloway for Grassfed, I just donít need that much moderation from the Shorthorn side. Reg # on Felix is 4289695.
Title: Re: More on Native
Post by: Dale on October 21, 2021, 07:01:10 PM
Felix has the same long level rump as Cat 20.  Our Catalyst 45 bull from Thieman's had similar proportions.  Cat 45 sired useful females with good udders.  Several of Cat 45's daughters were from the Bi Ru (Bill and Ruth Warters of Allerton, IL) herd that Burke and I purchased.  Cat 45 sired Homeplace Fair Lady from one of the Warters cows; now half of the Homeplace herd descends down from her.