More Shothorn Bull Questions-and Shorthorn clubby bloodlines

Again, I tweek those who know more about some older bulls@

What can you tell me about the "Leggs" cattle- seem to be stout and thick

How about Eskimo Joe- I've used a son, and he sure put the "Stout" on the calves!

How bout a combo of those cattle...  VHF Eskimo Leggs

CT Candy Man 4774-- seems to be an interesting pedigree

anyone used any of these cattle

(angel)

Also, what can anyone tell me about the old KA'BA bloodlines....  If I'm correct they come from CO, but are they still around?  If not when was the dispersal, and where did the cattle end up!!  It was my understanding that they were the start of "clubby" shorthorns????  Am i correct!!  Someone want to pipe in thier story?

kfacres said:

(angel)

Also, what can anyone tell me about the old KA'BA bloodlines....  If I'm correct they come from CO, but are they still around?  If not when was the dispersal, and where did the cattle end up!!  It was my understanding that they were the start of "clubby" shorthorns????  Am i correct!!  Someone want to pipe in thier story?

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Call Nick Steinke.  I wouldn't really call them all that clubby, but they are good cattle. Probably the most prolific cow lines of the 90's and 00's go back to Ka'Ba Rose T 90.

Leggs. (wo dividend 3j). You want to know how KABA became KABA? They had a full brother to Leggs. LENRU TA LEADER. DId great on their Hilltop Lancer breeding. Warren Oetken, merril Iowa. He is kind of a trip in a PT Barnum kind of way, but the old boy hit it deep when he bought the Tulip cow.

  The leggs cattle are nice maybe not enough power by today's standard. Le Ru Ta leader was a little bull. His claim to fame was that he was used on percentage cows and he put out cattle with a totally cool look. Seem both of these bulls mother when I was a kid on a trip to WO to look at steers. Massive cow. Hands down the most massive hipped Shorthorn  bull I have ever seen is Steermaker. Some may say...then I aint seen many horn bulls. I fit a bunch of old school winners in my day. Byalnd Big Bud,Deertrail Awesome,dozens of Waukaru bulls and the list goes on. Steermaker could be inconsistent but his influence is deep in our herd. If you like TA Leader try Double Leader. His daughters make great steer moms.

By the way I got your message and I am glad to hear Dr. Feelgood got them bred. That is a handful of cows in a short time in crap weather. That may be his issue, he needs a rest.

Jeff

Funny thing Jeff, the only bad steermaker cattle I ever saw were at the guy who raised him.

I have heard from several people who have a qualified opinion that Steermaker was the best looking mature bull of any breed they ever saw.I had his full brother running around for all of 4 days before I found him doing the backstroke in my pond.

yes jeff... he got the job done... I'm happy... had two cows that didn't check preg... one got hardware- and luckily saved her (atleast to this point)- she lost a ton of weight, and is nursing a calf during the whole time as well... She had skipped a cycle, but as far as everything goes, I'd say she absorbed.  So I look for her to come around in heat and get bred ASAP...  The other cow has been cycling all winter, we thought she was cystic- but vet said she was still OK...  I did put a straw in her the other day, and IMO her cervix has smaller than a heifers!  not sure if that could have something to do with her beeing a hard breeder this year or not...  First time around she stuck and calved AI- and now two bulls are having trouble getting her bred...  Hopefully she'll take the Kool stick I put in her... 

The bull has been worked hard in the last 60 days...  The cows will all start calving 9-4, and minus the 2 who were open- they will finish around 9-20...  so all in all he got  his workout!! 


I had forgot about Steermaker...  his influence runs deep in our cows too- maybe not for 5 or so generations, but he's in there quite a bit regardless...  JBS still offer semen on him???  Am I correct in that Steermaker sired a national champ bull,  heifer, and steer... and he is the only bull in doing so???  I'd say it will take a shift in trends, and a whale of a bull to do that in today's world!!  (lol)

yuppiecowboy said:

Funny thing Jeff, the only bad steermaker cattle I ever saw were at the guy who raised him.

I have heard from several people who have a qualified opinion that Steermaker was the best looking mature bull of any breed they ever saw.I had his full brother running around for all of 4 days before I found him doing the backstroke in my pond.

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  When I got to see him for the first time it was like a scene from Wayne's World.....I'm not worthy I'm Not worthy. That was the most impressive bull I may have seen.I can say I have never seen a bull with as deep of a stifle as him. He is #1 in my book. Joel is a pretty good cattle friend as well.

  Jeff

You asked about leggs.  There were 3 brothers  Leggs, owned by billy Joe Fisher, of McCloud.  Leggs 2 owned by the Holloway family in Chattanooga, OK.  Len Ru Ta Leader owned by the Kaba Ranch ,  in colorado.

EAch bull produced a grand a a major show in the 80's and 90's.  I personally owned daughters from each bull and owned kaba Keystone.  I would love to have some of those females today.  The steer side was smaller framed and easy keeping.  Those bred for larger framed cattle got what they wanted too.  Larger cattle with a sweet look.

Bulls in todays genetic horizons list that include KABA breeding are  Ace of Diamonds, Chiller, Surf, Snappy, American Outlaw, American patriot, Handy Dandy, Perfect timeing, absolutley, tobascoe, Rocky, Casper, Vortec, Double leader, keystone, Get serious, Polar Express and Fringe, and probably a few more.

Len ru ta leader had several sons that were producers,  My bull Keystone was known for his powerful steers.  We had to breed him to stretchy long fronted cows to get steers big enough to win.  First calf crop produced champions at the Iowa state Fair, Missouri State Fair, Res. Chm, Wisconson st Fair,  Champion and res Grand at the Texas state fair, Champion Tulsa State Fair, Champion Ft Worth state fair.  That year at Ft Worth, keystone calves won half of the shorthorn classes and had 7 steers in the top 5 of their classes.
There wer 2-3 bulls that produced great females in a larger frame.  Those prodigy finally produced today's vortec.

You can't go wrong with the kaba lines.  I hve not kept up with Joe's herd, so I don't know what is going on today with those genetics.  At one time they had the genetics  that were in demand.

The Ka'Ba Ranch is still around, I live about 2 hours from it! My very first shorthorn actually came from the Ka'Ba ranch, they have pretty amazing genetics. They don't have the highest quality club calves but my heifer/cow from there has made some absolutely amazing calves!

I can vouch for everything carl is saying about the Ka ba and ole Leggs of billy joe fisher.We showed and sold alot of steers and heifers that came from Billy and some from carl.In the 80's and 90's they were hard to get around.My brother sold the last few of his leggs and steermaker influenced cattle to a fellow in Nebraska about 6 years ago.The old Boxcar Willy bloodlines were successful in those days also.My brother sold one of the last natural bull calves from Boxcar to jeff bedwell and david jett ,and they bred him to some of todays shorties with good success.As far as leggs, Lecil church had a bull called Diamond Leggs 21 that was pretty useful.Steermaker,the Leggs cattle,Boxcar Willy,Petro 2 and Carls cattle have been some of the best shortie lines as far as clubbies go, that were ever created.You just had to "know' what to use them on,not just breed them to just anything. there are still quite alot of Kaba influence in some of todays cattle,and I see some Robison Boxcar 602 in a few sale catalogs today.Ace ofDiamonds has the Kaba influence and Double stuff is three generations back.He works on clubbie type cows and stouter made conventional bloodlines as well.I think he is one of the better dual purpose bulls on the market.The Raisbacks consistantly top the local market with their steer calves that don't sell for club calves.Not bad for purebred shorties that compete against some good weekly black calves in a 3000 head weekly market....Great post ,brings back alot of good shortie memories.

What about the Seven T's cattle, and this Petro 2nd bull???  What they like? 

Joe Farris of Taloga Ok owned a bull called Petro.  I think he was half maine, noted for his muscle and bone.  Petro 2 is a son of him and i am not sure the breeding on the dam side.    Real nice steer bulls.  Calves were thick and stout.  They seemed to be not as fancy as they needed to be but you couldn't not ignore the power the cattle had.  They were very competitive for many years in both the heifer and steer shows.

Seven T's.    I can't remember those blood lines as well.  I think the T stands for Taylor.  Not sure if it wes the taylors From Banner, Ok or the Taylors at Leedy.  probably the Taylors at Leedy.      Great Milking cattle, not as steery but clicked well on the steery genetics .  Real nice femine femailes. 

I think all the herds in Oklahoma had some seven T bloodlines in their gene pool.

This is pushing my memory stick pretty hard.  Not sure I am 100 percent correct. ???

The Seven T's were from Loveless family from Luther OK.  Vic Taylor of Yukon owned Seven T's John he was probably the most famous of the Seven T's line.

There you go.    I could not remember exactly.    (clapping)

7t's was vic taylor wasn't it? I remember when I got the catalog for his most recent dispersion he had a whole boatload of Clipper King of USA semen. Should have been sold with a disclaimer "For Nostalgic Use Only".

I still dabble in the older stuff with the horns I have left. I have a 3 year old daughter of Leggs out of a Stinger cow that is pretty cool if you can handle the fact shes a shorthorn. Those were the kind of cattle that taught me that the uglier the shorthorn cow the better the calf. I had some irish cows that looked like they had been dead for 2 years and nobody bothered to tell them. Throw some 'Maker or Petro on there and it cooked like a good stew. Rumor has it Heatseekers mom was about as Johnes infested, hardware ridden, underfed, no talent, albino that walked to look at her.

I started with a hardoing-Rodeo Cumberland in 1991-and she finally looked good in 2005-along the way we used rhf Magnum (Cf Fortune-Cf Picture Perfect Trump) then ss Dazzle-a grandson of Mattis. I bred some of these to a KABA-Leader son of Brookwood Rose (full sib to T-90) along with some others. Got a butt ugly hiefer who has had 2 just cool hiefers out of Lucky Ralph (averaged over $3000. in totally unpolitically correct sales) and a 65 pound-solid red female-3x ka ba rose-who had a 48 pound first hiefer. We bred a Magnum (cumberland ) daughter to A full sib to Limited Edition and got Panama Red (pictured at 18 mos. off cows) who is a solid red BET THE FARM calving ease bull. We bred him back  to magnum daughters (should have been trainwrecks) nothing over 80 pounds-one will show in Texas this year(65 pounds-pictured- in Oct TRIPLE BRED ROSE). Sorry to be long winded-but my cattle seemed to go straight to cunia-totally different from the cool looking cows at FERRARS or pics from Venables (man they were awsome) or KABA O0

Great googly moogly Mark. I have a rule that great cattle take lousy pics and crap sandwiches take lousy pics. That heifer must be a pile of nothing. Wink wink nod nod.

I love powerful attractive useful cattle. I hate to look at my ugly horns because they are ugly. Their calves arent. Cumberland is a great cow line. 410 was praised in the early 80s and her granddaughter raised Sonny (the only soft functional Trump I ever saw or used) That cow line works tall iand gangly or stout and short.

mark, you didn't send me a pic of that red heifer- when I was inquiring about Panama Red...  He's only 7/8ths Shorth, correct??? 

Also, what would a cunia progeny be papered as- 1/2 blood, or is there some kind of conversion factor associated with the old time Maines... 

Most old red and whites maines will register as 3/4 bloods.  Cunia is also this way.