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Online cbcr

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Multi-breed EPD's vs within-breed EPD's
« on: November 27, 2018, 03:20:42 PM »
We have been hearing from different groups of breeds that the multi-breed EPD's aren't working for their breed of animals like they feel they should.  Some have mentioned that before the multi-breed EPD's many bulls were good on calving ease, but since the multi-breed EPD's started these same bulls do not look good at all for calving ease.

So many breeds have today such a high percentage of Angus influenced genetics within the breed, and with this Angus influence, it also effects the EPD's.  All of the Continental breeds today have very few breeders that have pureblood or fullblood animals on which the breed association was founded.  All of the breeds have turned black because of the Angus influence.  There is not as much diversity among the breeds because of this.

We have reviewed a few bulls and we are seeing the same result.  A bull that is in the top 10% of a breed with good calving ease on a within-breed EPD, when you look at a multi-breed EPD many times that same bull can be in the bottom 40% for calving ease.

This is a problem for breeders especially when it comes to bull sales.

If you look at some other factors, we have heard it said that a cow should be able to give birth to a calf that is 6% of her body weight.  With this in mind this means that a cow that weighs 1150 lbs should be able to give birth to a 69 lb calf.  But some breeds are bigger so a 1500 lb cow should be able to have a 90 lb calf. So between the two cows their is 21 lbs difference in the birth size of the calf.

Both cows gave birth to calves that were 6% of their body weight, but when it come to the EPD's, the calf that weighed 90 lbs is going to have a much worse calving ease EPD.

Birth weight is the most discussed trait, there are many factors that can affect the birth weight, time of year ( spring vs fall), feeding, breed, and weather (cold vs warmer temperatures).

Many farmers these days do more selection for calving ease bulls, even on mature cows.  But they are leaving money on the table.  Yes, it is the goal of every farmer to have a live calf on the ground, make a lot more money that a dead calf.  But are we focusing too much on calving ease especially in older cows.

There have been a few studies done comparing lighter birth weight calves to heavier birth weight calves.  Calves born with heavier birth weights averaged about 35 lbs more at weaning.  If you value that at $1.50 per lb that is $52.50 and  if you have 10 calves that would be $525 more money in your pocket.

What opinion does everyone have here concerning multi-breed vs within-breed EPD's?


Offline knabe

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Re: Multi-breed EPD's vs within-breed EPD's
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2018, 03:34:49 PM »
Really its all crying.

Fullbloods of any breed simply do not have the diversity and numbers.

Certified not angus killed off fullbloods.

Only way they are coming back is to eat them and do a better job of not chasing fads and turn in data.

Breeders like griswold have lots of data on maines but wont turn it in.

Fullbloods of all breeds need data from retained ownership.

Example. Cunia, the most prominent Maine has a huge no marbling epd.

The breed needs to find something besides chill factory and Irish whiskey who both have cunia in them a lot if they want to get anywhere.

The breed, like most, went black too fast which narrowed the gene pool.

Maybe it doesnt matter, who knows. There is no data to know.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 04:22:57 PM by knabe »
everyone is stupid except Obama.

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: Multi-breed EPD's vs within-breed EPD's
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2018, 09:08:51 PM »
 The kids thats a great ballplayer at the small school is likely average at best against stiffer competition at the larger schools.  This is exactly how is see the comments about a bull being a trait leader within breed but average when compared to stiffer across breed competition.

Birth weight has zero impact on CE EPD.  So the assumption that the 90 pound or would have a worse calving ease EPD is just incorrect and in my opinion exposes and true lack of understanding of how EPDs are even calculated.   For starters, only calving ease reports from heifers are used in the CE EPD calculation.  Cows are not factored in at all.  None zero zilch.   It is true though that if both of these calves -one 69lbs one 90- were in the same contemporary group, that the one with the 90 pound birthweight would have more upward bw epd movement than the 69lber.   Though depending on the BW EPD accuracy of the pedigree, the calf with the 69 pound birthweight could very well have a higher BW EPD than the 90lber.   Again, depending on parentage averages, etc.

At $52.50 premium for the larger bw calves, It would take me having between 50 and 100 of them just to breakeven for even one cow laying down and dying. 

Friends dont let friends use crossbred bulls

 

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