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Author Topic: My two cents.  (Read 9732 times)

Offline E6 Durhams

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Re: My two cents.
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2012, 07:14:36 AM »
Shortdawg, maybe next year but I'm still digging my way out of a hole but that's a good idea. I sure like Starbucks dam. I'd like to give her more rib and downsize her head some but she is a good rip.
I'mthinking your giving up way too fast.  I don't want to spend money you don't have, any Cates genetics you could buy 5 sraws of?  If so what would you pick?  Excluding those that are syndicated....
I'm not one to give up. Just know now isn't the right time for me. I got a plan tho. So far it's gone as good as I could have hoped. I'm being patient. Honestly I have no idea what bulls are synd and which aren't. If I'd pick one off the top of my head I'd say the CF Starbucks bull is pretty good. I never cared for his promo pic (sorry josh). But I saw some mature pics of him and I couldn't really tell the difference between him and Complete. Those two couldn't be any more unrelated. A lot of the trump bred cattle keep growing a little to long for me. But Starbucks seems to have matured into a moderate hog. That's why I liked his dam. And come to think of it I bet I can get semen on him to!
Very good post TG. I echo a lot of the stuff you said and also that the Cates are really good people too.  I think I am a step ahead of you on something, haha. Below are pics of a breeding I tried this year. We will see! Lot 1 Cates heifer x Complete.  ;D





 <beer> (clapping) (clapping)

JTM

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Re: My two cents.
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2012, 08:55:20 AM »
Well, let's see the mature pic then...  (pop)
In response to the topic, I don't think there is any point in crossing the trump bred show cattle with the commercially oriented lines.   Just seems to me that you'd get a 'dual purpose' type that's not very good in either arena.  Maybe if you were to treat those offspring (how i'd use Complete) as a breeding piece(7/8) to create a final product(15/16) then youd be on to something - the infusion of the showier cattle genetics being used to add skeletal design/structure to rid many commercial lines of the droopy headed, poor topline type characteristics.  From those 'f1s' so to say, I'd keep going back with beefier bulls to get the functionality back in them.  The key here is to select against those coon footed cowier types and select those that have added beefiness w/o giving up form. 
Or maybe form really does follow function and beef cattle look they way the do as a result of their functionality. "This is what functional characteristics look like"   As a result of having functional characteristics, the animal evolves into a certain form?? At least I think so.
Why can't show cattle perform on pasture?? Because the characteristics they've been selected for, or better yet their form, isn't conducive to real world performance.
*Is a heifer's udder quality more influenced by her dam or by her sire?
XBar, I agree with pretty much everything you said there. Although I think there is a point to breeding the show cattle to performance oriented. You can use it to change your program in order to improve performance. What I am doing with my show oriented purebreds is trying to get functional cattle that also have a show ring acceptable look. I think you are correct in saying that with functionality comes a certain look but for the love of showing and competition I am willing to try this kind of breeding in order to attempt to make a show aniimal that has a lot more chance of performing well in multiple areas. There are very few show animals that possess really good characteristics in all areas. So far Star Bucks has done that more than any other show oriented bull I have used. The only thing I have yet to see is his daughters udders when they calve. This spring will show that. I think the common answer to your question is that the sire stamps more of the udder than the dam but I would tend to say it's 50/50 and a toss up unless both are bad or both are good. I believe traits can come from multiple generations and you don't know when or if they will pop up.

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: My two cents.
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2012, 10:40:16 AM »
Very nice bull - I like mature pics so much better.


Offline OH Breeder

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Re: My two cents.
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2012, 11:09:43 AM »
Really like the mature pics of starbucks. what lines has he seem to have clicked with better?
Life is too short....don't sweat the small stuff.

Offline Telos

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Re: My two cents.
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2012, 11:46:58 AM »
The Cate's program was built with a long term mission. A bunch of culling was done to get there. This is all about genetics and experimentation.  Those Trump's and Rodeo Drive's were created using primarily Cunia influence x Shorthorn genetics. My thoughts are to go back and find a Maine bull that has a different genetic profile. The line bred Purebreds are probably too common genetically but some of those Fullblood Maine's can give you some outcross potential. Improving cattle is infinite and a long term mission. It's not over with yet. Have fun and good luck.
Jack Jabara

Offline shortdawg

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Re: My two cents.
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2012, 01:54:38 PM »
I wish I would have bought Twilight when I had the chance - I really like him.
Eph. 2:8-10

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: My two cents.
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2012, 02:35:39 PM »
I wish I would have bought Twilight when I had the chance - I really like him.

X1000

What he sale for?

JTM

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Re: My two cents.
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2012, 09:03:31 PM »
Really like the mature pics of starbucks. what lines has he seem to have clicked with better?
Thanks OH breeder, He has clicked really well with Jake's Proud Jazz, HD Bloodstone, and Purebred maine daughters. Really, all of his calves have been very consistently good but we have had like 80% bull calves so far. The thing is, he makes really good heifers and bull calves that aren't throw aways like you see so much with Shorthorn show cattle bull calves.
Very nice bull - I like mature pics so much better.
Thanks a lot. He is more impressive in person than in pictures. I'll try to get a mature promo pic here soon. Got way too many irons in the fire right now though...

Offline shortdawg

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Re: My two cents.
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2012, 03:17:18 PM »
I wish I would have bought Twilight when I had the chance - I really like him.

X1000

What he sale for?

I think for around $6k
Eph. 2:8-10

Offline Doc

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Re: My two cents.
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2012, 07:43:18 PM »

That's a good question! My first step was getting 329. Super easy keeping, easy calving , just good solid bull. Not the bone or hair or zipper front end but a good place to start. I think it's possible to eventually combine enough show cattle phenotype with real world cattle and get a good middle of the road product that can reach lots of customers. I would love to see some of the cates genetics bred to some bulls of my choosing.
[/quote]

We sold a flush out of our Lily cow that they flushed to Waukaru Patent. It will be interesting to see how that turns out.
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong
enough to take everything you have.   -- Thomas Jefferson

 

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