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Offline coyote

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Re: New Herdsire
« Reply #60 on: July 01, 2016, 09:24:54 AM »
This is Muridale Matt 37Y another one of our herdsires.
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Offline justintime

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Re: New Herdsire
« Reply #61 on: July 01, 2016, 09:35:39 AM »
Both Robert and Matt are what beef bulls should look like, in any breed. We need far more bulls like these bulls in the Shorthorn breed, in order to gain more commercial acceptance. I often wonder that if the black hide is such a huge issue especially in the US, why more red bulls like there are not used?  They would not only retain the black color but they would benefit from heterosis in the calves? Heterosis has been estimated to result in approximately 15% more performance in a set of calves. I can't think of anything else in this business that offers 15% extra for no additional cost.
Congratulations on having two of the best beef bulls running with your cows!
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Offline Medium Rare

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Re: New Herdsire
« Reply #62 on: July 01, 2016, 10:12:27 AM »
I've been submitted lots and lots of data for several years. Much more data than this study will give me. 13 calves in a group for over $2,000 cost? Who can afford that in the real world? I didn't even know anything about it until a few weeks ago and it's already at the deadline. The thought crossed my mind that I should put CF Star Bucks in there just for kicks and giggles. I sent an email to the participants saying that I think we should have had a committee to talk about which bulls would be best to objectively enter this test and have the ASA pay for the expense of the testing or do some fundraising for it. I also copied ASA staff. I have received zero replies...

The current vacancy in the staff might have something to do with delays in anything related to genetics. I just hope it didn't leave too big of a general Shorthorn/breeder knowledge vacuum as well. I expect some more growing pains along the way. I did see where they are looking for more breeders to join the various committees though, so hopefully that results in some positive additions to the system.

I'm just glad the digital beef system is working fairly smoothly. Some Red Angus breeders are STILL working through theirs after they spent an enormous amount of money, and I can't seem get an email returned no matter who I send it to over there.

Offline Medium Rare

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Re: New Herdsire
« Reply #63 on: July 01, 2016, 10:26:20 AM »
This is Muridale Matt 37Y another one of our herdsires.

It's sure not hard to guess which sire is stacked in his pedigree!

Looks good!
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 10:27:06 AM by Medium Rare »

Offline librarian

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Re: New Herdsire
« Reply #64 on: July 01, 2016, 12:56:45 PM »
The math is complicated but if you add all the generations up, he must be a half brother or better to Robert.
MR. How is your Bonanza bull doing? ( if I'm not mixed up)
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Offline Medium Rare

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Re: New Herdsire
« Reply #65 on: July 01, 2016, 01:36:26 PM »
The math is complicated but if you add all the generations up, he must be a half brother or better to Robert.
MR. How is your Bonanza bull doing? ( if I'm not mixed up)

He's been busy this spring. Covered some Shorthorns, some Angus, and some Red Angus the past few months. Probably let him run clean up on some fall calving Red Angus this winter. I've been meaning to take a picture now that the summer fescue has stripped him down to his working clothes.

Offline Duncraggan

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Re: New Herdsire
« Reply #66 on: July 01, 2016, 02:36:54 PM »
No the cost can't be justified. Name one thing the Asa does to help its members? Nothing. I want to register my cattle, but not when it costs me money to do it and I get no benefit. It's time for the Asa to step up. Long past time actually.
This sire test is something that the ASA is doing to help it's members. Unfortunately in this day and age, the 'user pays' principle is the norm and if you want information, you have to cough up for it!
You can spend years doing your own in-herd testing, or, you can pay your $2000 dollars and fast track your data collection and accuracy by joining the ASA sire test.
With beef prices declining, and inputs soaring, I think the days of buying a cheap bull with no data at the sale barn and still making a good profit are few.
I've been submitted lots and lots of data for several years. Much more data than this study will give me. 13 calves in a group for over $2,000 cost? Who can afford that in the real world? I didn't even know anything about it until a few weeks ago and it's already at the deadline. The thought crossed my mind that I should put CF Star Bucks in there just for kicks and giggles. I sent an email to the participants saying that I think we should have had a committee to talk about which bulls would be best to objectively enter this test and have the ASA pay for the expense of the testing or do some fundraising for it. I also copied ASA staff. I have received zero replies...
My take on the whole USA Shorthorn situation was as follows:
You have the show crowd that rate their herd by the number of awards.
You have the performance crowd that have been doing their thing for decades and have genetics in all corners of the globe.
You have the deep-pocketed breeders who follow the 'fad' and add to the 'hype'.
I get the feeling that the ASA bull test is angled towards the last group.

If your data is lacking after years of data submission you have reason to complain if your accuracies are not up to standard.

I am not too surprised that you have not had a reply to your e-mail because if someone copies me on an e-mail, I take it that it is for information only. If you want a response, direct the e-mail at the intended respondent!

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: New Herdsire
« Reply #67 on: July 01, 2016, 03:05:11 PM »
who are the 'participants' that the email was sent to?

Offline huntaway

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Re: New Herdsire
« Reply #68 on: July 01, 2016, 03:48:54 PM »
No the cost can't be justified. Name one thing the Asa does to help its members? Nothing. I want to register my cattle, but not when it costs me money to do it and I get no benefit. It's time for the Asa to step up. Long past time actually.
This sire test is something that the ASA is doing to help it's members. Unfortunately in this day and age, the 'user pays' principle is the norm and if you want information, you have to cough up for it!
You can spend years doing your own in-herd testing, or, you can pay your $2000 dollars and fast track your data collection and accuracy by joining the ASA sire test.
With beef prices declining, and inputs soaring, I think the days of buying a cheap bull with no data at the sale barn and still making a good profit are few.
I've been submitted lots and lots of data for several years. Much more data than this study will give me. 13 calves in a group for over $2,000 cost? Who can afford that in the real world? I didn't even know anything about it until a few weeks ago and it's already at the deadline. The thought crossed my mind that I should put CF Star Bucks in there just for kicks and giggles. I sent an email to the participants saying that I think we should have had a committee to talk about which bulls would be best to objectively enter this test and have the ASA pay for the expense of the testing or do some fundraising for it. I also copied ASA staff. I have received zero replies...

Its not just the amount of data its the quality as well. In many herds possibly not yours I see this as a major issue. Small contempory groups with no variation in genetics or data value to make comparisons against. I think that is where the advantage would be.

The cost is in line with progeny tests in Australia. Both the Angus and Shorthorn tests cost $2500. The shorthorn test is limited to 6 sires and the angus 40 a year. If this is the first year they probably did have some sires lined up. Wouldn't be much point doing all the ground work to set up the trial and it fall over because no one nominates their sires.


Offline Dale

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Re: New Herdsire
« Reply #69 on: July 02, 2016, 12:29:22 PM »
Do you expect his semen to be available in the USA?  Collecting him is important, because not many bulls fill certain needs as well as Robert.  I waited too long to sample Bonanza, and this may be the right son. 

Offline Duncraggan

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Re: New Herdsire
« Reply #70 on: July 02, 2016, 02:59:39 PM »
No the cost can't be justified. Name one thing the Asa does to help its members? Nothing. I want to register my cattle, but not when it costs me money to do it and I get no benefit. It's time for the Asa to step up. Long past time actually.
This sire test is something that the ASA is doing to help it's members. Unfortunately in this day and age, the 'user pays' principle is the norm and if you want information, you have to cough up for it!
You can spend years doing your own in-herd testing, or, you can pay your $2000 dollars and fast track your data collection and accuracy by joining the ASA sire test.
With beef prices declining, and inputs soaring, I think the days of buying a cheap bull with no data at the sale barn and still making a good profit are few.
I've been submitted lots and lots of data for several years. Much more data than this study will give me. 13 calves in a group for over $2,000 cost? Who can afford that in the real world? I didn't even know anything about it until a few weeks ago and it's already at the deadline. The thought crossed my mind that I should put CF Star Bucks in there just for kicks and giggles. I sent an email to the participants saying that I think we should have had a committee to talk about which bulls would be best to objectively enter this test and have the ASA pay for the expense of the testing or do some fundraising for it. I also copied ASA staff. I have received zero replies...

Its not just the amount of data its the quality as well.
In many herds possibly not yours I see this as a major issue. Small contempory groups with no variation in genetics or data value to make comparisons against. I think that is where the advantage would be.

The cost is in line with progeny tests in Australia. Both the Angus and Shorthorn tests cost $2500. The shorthorn test is limited to 6 sires and the angus 40 a year. If this is the first year they probably did have some sires lined up. Wouldn't be much point doing all the ground work to set up the trial and it fall over because no one nominates their sires.
This is of uttermost importance in my opinion.

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: New Herdsire
« Reply #71 on: July 02, 2016, 04:48:00 PM »
This is Muridale Matt 37Y another one of our herdsires./////// THIS BULL NEEDS TO BE COLLECTED-GOT ANY CALVES ON THE GRPUND-AND IS CE LIKE SOME OF THE OTHER MURIDALES?  I AINT NO COYOTE BUT ILL HOWL AT THE MOON IN PUBLIC FOR A LITTLE SEMEN ON HIM O0 <party> <party> <beer> (clapping)

Offline coyote

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Re: New Herdsire
« Reply #72 on: July 03, 2016, 01:26:36 AM »
Quote
Do you expect his semen to be available in the USA?  Collecting him is important, because not many bulls fill certain needs as well as Robert.  I waited too long to sample Bonanza, and this may be the right son.

Yes I am planning on drawing him this fall , and yes it will be exportable to the USA and maybe other countries if it isn't too big of a hassle.
I used to be a coyote but I am all right noooooooowwwwwwwwwwww!

Offline coyote

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Re: New Herdsire
« Reply #73 on: July 03, 2016, 01:32:03 AM »
Quote
HIS BULL NEEDS TO BE COLLECTED-GOT ANY CALVES ON THE GRPUND-AND IS CE LIKE SOME OF THE OTHER MURIDALES?  I AINT NO COYOTE BUT ILL HOWL AT THE MOON IN PUBLIC FOR A LITTLE SEMEN ON HIM O0 <party> <party> <beer> (clapping)

Yes we have calves on the ground and we also have yearlings and some 2 yr old heifers that calved out this spring.
For now we are just planning on drawing Robert 35U sorry.
I used to be a coyote but I am all right noooooooowwwwwwwwwwww!

Offline Doc

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Re: New Herdsire
« Reply #74 on: July 03, 2016, 06:39:57 AM »

The current vacancy in the staff might have something to do with delays in anything related to genetics. I just hope it didn't leave too big of a general Shorthorn/breeder knowledge vacuum as well. I expect some more growing pains along the way. I did see where they are looking for more breeders to join the various committees though, so hopefully that results in some positive additions to the system.

I'm just glad the digital beef system is working fairly smoothly. Some Red Angus breeders are STILL working through theirs after they spent an enormous amount of money, and I can't seem get an email returned no matter who I send it to over there.
[/quote]

 If I'm not mistaken, the current vacancy shouldn't have an effect on what Josh is talking about as Jake just left. I would say that with Jake leaving , it will leave a MAJOR Shorthorn/breeder knowledge vacuum. Other than Gwen, there is no one left with any Shorthorn knowledge or breeder knowledge. I think that will be a major frustration point to most breeders.
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong
enough to take everything you have.   -- Thomas Jefferson

 

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