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Offline DL

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Re: New RA Genetic defect rules
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2008, 01:14:40 PM »
So is canyon a carrier or not? I'm going to be making breeding decesions here in 8 months or so. Will we have a handle on stuff by then? If that line is a carrier surely someone in the U.S. has seen a defective calf.

aj - since some of these marble bone calves are aborted - they may be missed, but more likely to miss if you aren't looking or are an ostrich - I am sure that someone in theU S has seen marble bone calves

There are several groups working on identifying the defective gene, but of course you must have samples - with 3 bulls id'ed as carriers it should be relatively easy to get an informed pedigree, esp if there were father-daughter matings from the ABS bull that was pulled (who is the full brother to one of the id'ed defect carriers.

I am staying away from anything with  Buf Crk CHF 824-1658 as he is obviously in all 3 carriers - doesn't mean he is the dirty doer, but seems prudent to avoid his genetics until the mutation is found and the test available. Take a look at the Brylor Catalog - I am using Mulberry and Master Plan - go north for your RA semen!

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Offline Show Heifer

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Re: New RA Genetic defect rules
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2008, 07:04:44 PM »
And, ask the hard questions to the breeder and dealer of the bull you are interested in.....if in doubt, leave them out!!!
(Ok, that is what I am doing....you all can do what you want!!)  ;D
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Offline SD

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Re: New RA Genetic defect rules
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2008, 07:08:36 PM »
DL - your advice on Brylor is very insightful. Goes back to Rambo 502 great bull. The Canadians have a slightly larger red gene pool mainly because they allow the registration of both black & red in one association. This allows commingling which has it's benefits.
 <alien>

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Offline DL

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Re: New RA Genetic defect rules
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2008, 01:02:34 PM »
aj - FYI another RA bull has been confirmed as a marble bone carrier - BUF CRK MAJOR R057 ( 1049988 ) - work your pedigree magic on him.....will it end the same way?? the plot thickens

I still can't imagine if  if the AMAA or ASA or AAA had done what the ARA did!!
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Offline Show Heifer

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Re: New RA Genetic defect rules
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2008, 03:40:50 PM »
Thanks for the info DL....

To our Canadian RA breeders: How's this thing playing out up there? Any carriers? What is your assoc doing to illiminate it?
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Offline garybob

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Re: New RA Genetic defect rules
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2008, 06:28:33 PM »
When are the Blacks going to get serious about eliminating the Fawn calf gene?

Offline DL

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Re: New RA Genetic defect rules
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2008, 07:41:44 PM »
When are the Blacks going to get serious about eliminating the Fawn calf gene?

gee GB - what a silly question - I suspect they will get serious about FCS right after they deal with the Long Nosed dwarf and the new form of arthrogoposis - Imagine knowing the identy of the LN dwarf gene but only being able to use it if you go thru the AAA - now that's a system that is sure to work swell! I have a picture of the LN dwarf - should i post it?
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Offline knabe

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Re: New RA Genetic defect rules
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2008, 07:49:26 PM »
yes

Offline Show Heifer

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Re: New RA Genetic defect rules
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2008, 07:57:36 PM »
Dumb question DL....post it....post it....post it now!!!!

And Garybob.....the Angus Ass. is just that. Apparently those carriers already identified in Austraila are owned by some "big dogs" (Right country isn't it DL?)....so therefore, it is not a genetic defect, but an "environmental".  Whatever.....looks like the Angus Ass. needs to by a bridge and a big beach, as they seem to like the sand!!
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Offline sjcattleco

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Re: New RA Genetic defect rules
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2008, 09:32:45 PM »
The thing that caught my attention is the fact that when you sell a registered red angus, you, as a seller are guaranteeing them to be defect free, and to have a defect free calf (if selling bred). If the animal is found to be a carrier down the road, you, as a seller, are REQUIRED to either replace the animal, or refund their money. That means if I sell a heifer today and it turns out she is a carrier next year (please keep in mind - no genetic test yet) I MUST refund or replace.

Just wandered what everything thought.....pretty strong stance compared to other breeds and genetic defects...



I think its great!!!! sounds like they have balls!!! Oh yea they have BOLZE!!!  same thing!!! LOL
"Bulls are the barometer of what a breed has to offer"

Offline DL

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Re: New RA Genetic defect rules
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2008, 10:31:18 PM »
This is a picture of a 3 year old Angus long-nosed dwarf and her dam - the picture was taken by Dr Jim Reecy from Iowa State who identified the mutation and developed the test - a little history

At the start of the 21st century, abnormal Angus calves were reported in several herds in the western U.S. Unlike the previous form of dwarfism, these calves appeared normal at birth, but failed to grow, and after several months appeared to have abnormally short legs and thick bodies. Astute breeders were concerned that these calves were dwarfs. All of the affected calves had multiple pedigree relationships with one Angus cow used extensively in an ET program. Four abnormal calves were sent to veterinary diagnostic laboratories for necropsy. Gross and histopathological examination of these calves indicated evidence for diminished endochondral ossification and other features consistent with dwarfism,and they were diagnosed  as the long-nosed dwarf. In the spring of 2002, the existence of six long-noseddwarf calves was reported to the AAA. Dr. Reecy, obtained DNA from all ancestors in the three generations preceding the dwarf calves; this served as the starting point to identify the defective gene. In the fall of 2003, a dwarf heifer and her dam (see picture) were donated to Iowa State. Both the carrier cow and the dwarf heifer were inseminated with semen from a bull known as a dwarf producer, High Valley 7D7 of 4G9 (AAA # 12,838,783; born 1997) and ET was performed to produce additional dwarf calves. Using his genetic material, Dr. Reecy was able to determine that the genetic defect of the long-nosed Angus dwarf was not the same defect as the limbin (EVC2 or LBN) mutation in Japanese brown cattle, nor the ACAN mutation in the Dexter breed [that's for knabe :)]. Further investigation revealed that the causal mutation of long-nosed dwarfism in American Angus cattle was within exon 15 of the cyclic GMP dependant, type-II, protein kinase (PRKG2) gene. Normal function of the PRKG2 gene is required to allow chondrocyte maturation. The mutation is 100% concordant with the dwarf, carrier,and wild-type phenotype.

Phenotypically, when compared to normal age mates, the long-nosed dwarf fails to grow. The limbs are shortened, but the body is of normal size. There is decreased long bone and vertebral length. Endochondral
ossification is incorrect and there is premature calcification of chondrocytes, and osteocytes have a disorganized arrangement and abnormal phenotype.

The list of Angus dwarfs is not inherently obvious on the AAA site but if you search for dwarf you can findit. There are only 7 recent dwarfs listed and less that 20 total in the whole history of the AAA. Since anecdotal reports of dwarfs similar to the long-nosed dwarf (as compared to the snorter dwarf) have been around for decades it is difficult to believe that this is as the AAA purports a new point mutation involving only 7 animals.

Yeah SH - silly question! and yes SJ they do have Bolze and good for them.

and I ask just one more time just imagine what would have happened if the AMAA or ASA or AAA had done what the ARA did!!
« Last Edit: September 02, 2008, 10:35:50 PM by DL »
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Offline Jill

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Re: New RA Genetic defect rules
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2008, 11:11:05 AM »
I'm thinking if the ASA and AMAA (to answer your question in my opinion) had implemented the refund policy you would not have an ASA or AMAA around to worry about today, that seems like a really good way to go broke fast.  I guess for me I would rather switch breeds than take a chance that 2 years down the road I would have to refund all the money I made this year when you have really no idea who your carriers are since they haven't been identified and it appears you are still coming up with some.

Offline Show Heifer

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Re: New RA Genetic defect rules
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2008, 11:48:07 AM »
You would only go broke if you were selling carriers....and I can not help but think that most folks know their herd better than they admit too.

Talked to the RA assoc and they have had nothing but positive feed back..... some breeders are even irradicating those "suspected" bloodlines. IMVHO I think the Red Angus Assoc is taking the proactive approach rather than head in the sand approach.....but again, just my opinion. Maybe that is why their assoc is growing faster than any other???? (Again JMVHO)
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Offline Jill

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Re: New RA Genetic defect rules
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2008, 01:45:05 PM »
It's not just your herd you need to worry about, it's what you have bred to, just in this post there is a question about one bull and a new one that has just been found out.  I agree with that type of hard line once there is a test or a way to be sure.

Offline SD

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Re: New RA Genetic defect rules
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2008, 03:50:04 PM »
and I ask just one more time just imagine what would have happened if the AMAA or ASA or AAA had done what the ARA did!!

Ok, I have been holding this opinion in but DL's questions begs a response. And so I post it now probably to be skewered for even thinking it. I mean no ill will to anyone but it is worth some brain time (serious thought):

DL it has to do with the membership and their goals being represented in the association staff and executive board. The long term integrity of the RA breed was taken into account not the short term cost to anyone member. If the members lack integrity then don't be surprised when the associations choose not to act with integrity.

An interesting side note to this issue is that when it comes to the show ring the RA has some unique (most would say weird) rules to keep the cattle practical (I know a subjective term). But look at the others associations show ring philosophy and correlate that to their handling of genetic problems.

OK enough said, now it's burn the alien at the stake time.
 <alien>

PS RA stands for "Real Angus!" (I just couldn't resist ;))
Tact and Political Correctness were developed by those who lack the Testicular Fortitude to say what they really mean.

 

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