New RA Genetic defect rules

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BIGTEX

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I wonder who the top selling steer over Labor Day weekend was sired by? Um can you say HEATWAVE! just a guess.
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BT - don't get / read Show Circuit (can you say read when there are only pictures??) sure there is a demand for dirty bulls from people breeding for show steers but what happens to those unfortunate critters who happen not to be male?? Doubt that most of them end up in the feedlot, which raises the question what is a registered heifer from a dirty bull? :eek: :eek:
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Can you say Market Heifer? Me personally, I would and do have them tested. If they were pos. I would breed to clean bulls. Some of the most sought after club calf mothers are Who daughters because they are clean and you can breed them to dirty bulls. So  take your pos. mother cows and breed to clean Maine bulls. Then you could charge more for your clean genetics.BTW I said have you seen the August show circuit not read. You're right there isn't a lot of reading going on. The calves and bulls sure look good.
 

Show Heifer

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I think the difference is TESTING...you say you test them and then act appropiately......of all the pasture type sales I have been to in the last TWO years, not a single one had tested their calves. NOT ONE. And even those advertised as breeding heifers were not tested.  So, that tells me, many "breeders" or "jocks" do not care if they pass a carrier on to an unsuspecting buyer....I tell sellers and my "kids" that if it is not worth their $54 to test an animal, then it is not worth my time or money to waste with them. 

Oh, by the way, most of the "market heifers" around here are taken back to the farm and bred.....
 

DL

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simtal said:
we have referred to these as "terminal show heifers"

Talk about TH and PHA, what about selling Johnes or PI-BVD carriers?  Thats just as deceptive.

And when the terminal show heifers end up in someones pasture pregnant what do we call them?

Yes I agree about JD and BVD PIs - bad diseases that are most often purchased, esp JD - however, with JD the disease may show up years after the infection and the tests, esp when there is no clinical disease, are not terribly sensitive - so unlike PHA or TH when the answer is pretty clear from the affected calf or the DNA test, it is possible to sell an JD infected animal and not know it is infected even if it was tested (ie sell a show heifer - test not very reliable at that age) - so IMHO JD is a more complicated scenario. I recommend that anybody who buys anything that has access or nose contact to their breeding stock have it ear notched for BVD PI - very cheap insurance against a potential wreck

few people test for JD and are involved in a control or eradication program - JD is a complicated disease - there is a bunch of information of SP from a  while ago and I have some handouts on beef and JD I can email anybody who wants them.

My herd is BVD free and we test negative annually for JD and have for over a decade - anybody else test?
 

BIGTEX

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Show Heifer said:
I think the difference is TESTING...you say you test them and then act appropiately......of all the pasture type sales I have been to in the last TWO years, not a single one had tested their calves. NOT ONE. And even those advertised as breeding heifers were not tested.  So, that tells me, many "breeders" or "jocks" do not care if they pass a carrier on to an unsuspecting buyer....I tell sellers and my "kids" that if it is not worth their $54 to test an animal, then it is not worth my time or money to waste with them. 

Oh, by the way, most of the "market heifers" around here are taken back to the farm and bred.....
Isn't that the owners' decision?



I think if you are a responsible buyer(and don't want a defective calf) you would have them tested yourself after the purchase and before breeding. If you don't want to take the chance on maybe getting a pos. female then make sure her pedigree is clean.
 

Show Heifer

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I absolutely agree 1000% with that simtal and knabe.

That is why I ask about herd status when and IF I buy anything......and why this fall/spring, I will be testing every cow on the place for both BVD and Johnes, and then going for that certified free status.
I have not had any BVD or Johnes, but want that famous piece of paper to back me up!!!

A hypothitcal question: A breeder takes a group of heifers to the sale barn, they are nice, and are all AI'd sired. The seller says NOTHING about them being carriers of a genetic disease. Someone buys them and breeds them to a bull they bought at a bull sale. (Heifers are carriers, and by chance so is the bull). This commercial cattleman know has 25% TH/PHA calves that are dead, loses some of the heifers. Who is to blame.
Or this scenario: A commercial guy buys 3 bulls at a salebarn special breeding bull sale. He breeds them to his cows, and decides to keep replacement heifers....turns them in with a bull from same farm and they have deformed/dead calves. If he bought them at a BREEDING BULL/REPLACEMENT sale, should the location (salebarn) hold the blame???

Lots of commercial guys around here go to those special sales to buy "replacement" stock. THAT is what is being advertised and what is being represented. Who is to blame there??

Totally different story if you go to the weekly sale and buy out of the "kill" or "pound" pen.
 

simtal

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I would think that the seller is completely blameless on both scenarios because the animals didn't sell with any guarantee. Unless the sale barn has terms and conditions specific to what went wrong (I'm guessing few do).


Reputation, however, would be comprised.
 

TPX

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As a Canadian red angus breeder I havent heard  much about this genetic defect but I will be sending a note to the assoc. to see what they have to say.  I was also wondering do you guys think that the american pure bred breeders tend to lend themeselves to be hit more by a genetic defect b/c somemany people tend to jump on certian genetics at once.  I am not talking just about the RA but also seems to happen in the shorthorns, angus, maine and simms.  I notice that in some breeds in the states alot of the programs that people have within in breeds arent much different then most other breeders.  It seems like up here in canada most people have there own program and sticks to it.  But I will not kid you there are still alot of bandwagon jumpers with alot of the new investers coming in.
 

Show Dad

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Is that called the herd mentality? TPX, I think it has a lot to do with it and a few problems too. But at the same time look at the number of defect cattle (RA) to the total. Its amazing.

But as you know in Canada it can take just one to send the whole thing crazy.
 

DL

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TPX said:
As a Canadian red angus breeder I havent heard  much about this genetic defect but I will be sending a note to the assoc. to see what they have to say.  I was also wondering do you guys think that the american pure bred breeders tend to lend themeselves to be hit more by a genetic defect b/c somemany people tend to jump on certian genetics at once.  I am not talking just about the RA but also seems to happen in the shorthorns, angus, maine and simms.  I notice that in some breeds in the states alot of the programs that people have within in breeds arent much different then most other breeders.  It seems like up here in canada most people have there own program and sticks to it.  But I will not kid you there are still alot of bandwagon jumpers with alot of the new investers coming in.

I think there are breeders - people who have a program and a goal and have thought about where they want to go and where they want to be in 10 or 20 years, and then there are those who simply multiply cattle with the goal of having the next great one - winner of the purple ribbon and of course there  are also the followers - jump on the band wagon breeders. When you have this kind of scenario - breeding for single traits or a specific look or following the bandwagon you are much more likely to end up with a critical mass of carrier animals and the explosion of defects from recessive traits. IMO when breeders identify a possible genetic defect they contact their vet or the association this is certainly the case with TH and Nick Steinke as well as the owner of the 7D7 Angus dwarf carrier bull, when multipliers or followers see a dead weird calf they bury it. The Australians using popular American Angus genetics have found themselves in a bit of a mess with Fawn Calf Syndrome. I do not think that the Canadian breeds are defect free but it appears from the breeders up north that I know there is more emphasis on having a program and less on nonfunctional hairy cattle that can win in the show ring.

I am impressed with the aggressive and timely approach with which the RAAA attacked the problem - IMHO it shows exactly what they think is important
 
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