Nose ring in a steers nose

I am seriously thinking of ringing my daughter's steer.  I started him and two others last weekend with brooming him and dragging a halter for a couple of days.  Then tied them up.  He never really fought the halter when tied up.  But try and lead him and he just puts his head down with his nose tipped to the outside and goes.  I can't hold him.  (Thinking nasty thoughts about the other half when I think back to I want to wean these three steers early and was told just to wait til they were weaned and vaccinated before starting breaking.)  I put a nose lead in last night and was barely able to hold him but got it done and lead him without him getting away but only in a confined space. 

I don't see many steers that are ringed but I know that my daughter is going to have a hard time with this steer.  He is not at all wild.  Just very tough to get him to give his head.  He would be going to town with the rest if he were just average.  However, I believe that he is much above average in the steer dept and is a blue roan and she has had him picked out since he was a couple of weeks old.

we should combine threads on how to tame calves in the hall of fame.

basically by allowing him to put his head down and pull on the lead rope, he has been trained to do this.  he must put slack in the rope by moving towards your hand, not away from it.  get a longer lead rope that is at least  the diameter of whatever pen he is in.  when he puts his head down, don't let him feel any resistance in the rope.  when he stops, hold the lead rope with tension, don't pull.  move towards his rear end.  he will look at you, release the tension on the rope.  actually he will by looking at you.  scratch.  repeat over and over.  do on both sides and get so he won't move his feet and get stiff by bracing and simply moving his rear end away from you unless that is what you are asking which hopefully you are not.  maybe i'm old school, but i see way to many people attempting to lift heads, pull, tilt whatever rather than letting the calf do it on their own.

A thought.....you and your daughter are at a show....everyone is having a great time.....you take your "above average" steer to the show ring with ring in his nose......your daughter still can't hold him as the steer has obviously learned how to get his head away from your control and plows into a group of kids, or a baby stroller or a grandpa, grandma that is watching their family members...... people get hurt.....and all anyone sees is a girl (your daugher) that had a steer that was obviously wild (why else would it have a nose ring?) and hurt innocent bystanders.....
Now, what do you think I am going to recommend?????

While I wouldn't give up on the steer just yet, I sure the heck would not even consider taking it to a show anytime in the near or near distant future. And I certainly wouldn't let your daugher work with HER YOUTH project.....hmmmmmm......

My thought is these are KIDS STEER projects. If you have to nose ring, tranq, or drag with a tractor, the animal isn't a KIDS project. PERIOD. But while chacing a purple, we as breeders have ignored disposition, and put everyone at risk, and parents have ignored the dispostion problem in some bloodlines because they do not want little Billie, or little Susie to get second place. How pathetic.

My final thought.....NO animal is worth taking a chance on being injured. NONE.

I am a big guy- 5'11" and 275 pounds and last year I had a steer that would get away from me. I should have nose ringed my steer. I have seen plenty who have entered a show ring with a nose ring. Put a ring in him and see how he starts to act. There was a kid out at the school farm whos steer was a little on the crazy side. They put one in him and now they dont even use the nose ring. So you can probably get him to the point where you wont need it before any major shows.

Show Heifer said:

A thought.....you and your daughter are at a show....everyone is having a great time.....you take your "above average" steer to the show ring with ring in his nose......your daughter still can't hold him as the steer has obviously learned how to get his head away from your control and plows into a group of kids, or a baby stroller or a grandpa, grandma that is watching their family members...... people get hurt.....and all anyone sees is a girl (your daugher) that had a steer that was obviously wild (why else would it have a nose ring?) and hurt innocent bystanders.....
Now, what do you think I am going to recommend?????

While I wouldn't give up on the steer just yet, I sure the heck would not even consider taking it to a show anytime in the near or near distant future. And I certainly wouldn't let your daugher work with HER YOUTH project.....hmmmmmm......

My thought is these are KIDS STEER projects. If you have to nose ring, tranq, or drag with a tractor, the animal isn't a KIDS project. PERIOD. But while chacing a purple, we as breeders have ignored disposition, and put everyone at risk, and parents have ignored the dispostion problem in some bloodlines because they do not want little Billie, or little Susie to get second place. How pathetic.

My final thought.....NO animal is worth taking a chance on being injured. NONE.

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First off, why do you always have to chew peoples' ass when you don't agree with them??  Lighten up!

Every animal has the ability to hurt somebody, I don't care how tame it is.  To think not is just ignorance.  Now I can say everyone should know the law blah blah blah...
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                            WARNING

UNDER IOWA LAW, A DOMESTICATED ANIMAL PROFESSIONAL IS NOT LIABLE FOR DAMAGES SUFFERED BY, AN INJURY TO, OR THE DEATH OF A PARTICIPANT RESULTING FROM THE INHERENT RISKS OF DOMESTICATED ANIMAL ACTIVITIES, PURSUANT TO IOWA CODE CHAPTER 673. YOU ARE ASSUMING INHERENT RISKS OF PARTICIPATING IN THIS DOMESTICATED ANIMAL ACTIVITY. 


The people at the show are there knowing that they could get injured.  I for one don't think unsupervised children or anyone else who you wouldn't have sorting cattle with you has any business being anywhere other than the stands at a cattle show.  I wouldn't even let my mom be in the barn on show day when my brothers and I were showing cattle because she is one of those people who wouldn't know what to do if a calf got loose etc...

As to the original post I've never put a ring in a steers nose, but I wouldn't be afraid to try it, however I wouldn't want to show him with it in so I don't know how well that would work.  Just keep working with him and see if he comes around.  Most of the time they do..

Had a steer doing this Sunday night, cured it Monday morning.  He would put his head down, and run into you, not charging, but trying to get away from the tension some how.  He reared so high he almost hit his head on the barn beams, reared, lost his balance and rolled over like a dog, would shake his head violently back and forth so hard he would lose his balance and almost fall over.  He is only about 600lbs, but was determined not to walk properly.  He would try all these things so that he didnt have to walk.  He did all these things for the past couple weeks for my sister.  I saw her try to lead him and saw that she only had about a foot of slack on the halter, between him and her.  So I said, let it out, at least 4 feet or more.  Therefore he has more personal space to freak out in, and she has more leverage, because she has more length in the halter.  She pulled lightly, he would shake, rear, stumble, and then take two steps forward.  We did this over and over again in a pen about 25X25ft.  Pulling in circles over and over again.  After half an hour he was much better.  Would rear, stumble, shake head only about every 5 pulls of the halter. 
Next morning I took him outside....I mean outside where he could have gotten away anywhere.  He did this about every 10 pulls of the halter, but "gives" (like a horse) to the halter much better, and walked quite well with only a stumble every once in a while.  All this time we have had at least 3-5 ft of slack in the rope to keep leverage.  The MOMENT he starts to pull or shake his head or rear give him all the slack you can.  Then he isnt jerking your arms and body around and realizes he is only hurting himself.  Took him about 1-2 hours of total leading time to break him of the habit.  Its ALL about personal space, teaching cattle how to give to the halter (like a horse does), and leverage by staying at the end of the halter.  Ever notise that most people who know cattle well never lead the calf holding the halter right close to their face except for show day?  Cattle who are well broke "give" you there noses just like well broke horses do.  For example, you want them to turn, you lightly pull on the halter and they move their whole bodies.  That is "give". 
If there is ever tension in the halter when you are trying to hold a calfs head up at a show, dont reef on the halter and hold their head up.  Not only is it tiring, it makes the calf stretch their neck and distort the look of their body.  Let the calf relax their head, then pull in light jerks.  If tension builds up again, let them have their head again, then keep pulling in short jerks.  I did this on that steer ive been talking about, and within 20 seconds, his head was up high and he was enjoying life being scratched with the showstick.

Your daughters steer is putting his head down and being a jerk becuse he knows it works for him.  When you give him slack, he will realize it wont work for him any more.

Should so just make a video.  Next time I will try to remember.  I hope this helps.  Sure did for me.  Had an uncooperative little prick (for lack of a better word) on Sunday night, and a sweetheart on Monday morning.  Ahhhh what a nice monday morning!!

We had a head strong heifer one time and i rung her let it all heal up after she was broke and then cut the ring out and put in a black zip tie for showing if she acted up you could grab the loop in the zip tie and she stopped instantly and was a lot less noticable than a ring in her nose she showed good was just a little onery and I dont care how broke your animal is it is still an animal with a mind of its own a tame one will hurt you just as fast if not faster than a high strung one at least with the high strung one you are watching for it some people trust animals entirely to much

Get one of the spring loaded rings and try it.

you mean like james bond where he gets jettisoned out of the show ring if he misbehaves?

sorry, lame.

dusty, why did I think you would respond is such a manner? Maybe because it is you?

I wasn't chewing their butt (or A** as you say). If was doing that, I would have came off much more rude, trust me.

And as for the law.....that little blirb means NOTHING in the court of law. I can name 2 county fairs that have wrote HUGE checks, one for a run away steer that hurt a bystandard, and another for when a horse kicked another PARTICIPANT. A lawyer knows that most if not all counties will settle out of court rather than fight it. So do not let that let you sleep better at night.
Did I mention that the owners of the steer and horse were also sued and their insurance lawyers settled out of court????

As I said before, maybe do not give up, but it is a youth project yes? I agree with parental help, but if a steer/heifer is wild/getting away/mean/whatever, is it REALLY worth the risk? But then again, I do not consider trying my best to allowing me to cheat, and you do, so I guess we can just disagree on a few things that YOU condsider "grey areas".

If I read your original post right, then you only began breaking the calves a week ago?  Personally, I tie them for at least three weeks before trying to lead at all. I then gradually ease in to leading them.  It is a lot easier on me for them to fight the halter and post/gate then me!  I have had great luck breaking this way and would hold off on ringing him for a bit...

All of the above and NEVER LET THEM DRAG A HALTER!!!!!!!   That is the absolute worst thing you can do for one that drops its head, that just encourages it. 

inthebarnagain said:

All of the above and NEVER LET THEM DRAG A HALTER!!!!!!!   That is the absolute worst thing you can do for one that drops its head, that just encourages it. 

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I AGREE!  IMO this would only encourage bad behavior.  Also would teach them that if they want to get loose they just pull really hard and they will be free.  Also teaches them that the halter means nothing.
Not to mention the chance that they get caught in eachother or something else and choke themselves or other calves and you dont have to worry about "breaking" anything to lead.

I didn't really need a lecture on whether to take a wild steer to a show  He is for summer shows next year.  I would never take a calf that couldn't be handled.  What I was looking for was some input on other avenues to explore as to how to get him to give his head.  I didn't need a lecture on ethics and lawsuits.  I am fully aware of the consequenses of getting myself, my kids and others hurt.  I would have a hard time living with myself if i negligently and willfully hurt someone!!!!

BTW this steer isn't in the least wild as I stated in my initial post.  I don't even mess with the ones that turn themselves upside down and inside out.  This steer just knows he is bigger and stronger than I am.  Was looking for the post from Knabe and others on the leverage ideas.  Thanks for those thoughtful and instructive posts.

inthebarnagain said:

All of the above and NEVER LET THEM DRAG A HALTER!!!!!!!   That is the absolute worst thing you can do for one that drops its head, that just encourages it. 

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If they started from day one trying to pull their own weight with that halter, that problem wouldn't be here in the first place. It's one heck of a lot easier to let them fight with themselves than with you. The only thing I've seen dragging on a halter encourage is giving to pressure. Don't like that idea? Take two steers or heifers, or whatever and tie them to each other. That teaches about the same thing. Be happy to lead when you get tugged on. DON'T put in a nose ring. The gentle way of doing things might take a little longer, but I've yet to see it fail. But, if you start with the mindset that it won't work, it won't. You've got to have a good mind for your animal to have a good mind. My $0.02.

DONKEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! usd one on a period wild heifer and it works tames em dead serious tie that donkey to theat calf for 4-6 hrs a day and it will change em. they dont move but it works dont ask questions about it but it works. we loved it we bought one. if your dont get em broke then donkey em. Also trie tieing it to another steer. A family i know did that and it worked except for once when the two decided to take off they both decided to take different sides of a light pole and then figured out that they wouldnt try that again. it works for bolting cattle tie em to another calf. I know  around here in wisconsin they dont weigh in cattle or let em show with rings or wire threw the nose. Wild cattle happen good cattle can be wild its all part of showing, im young and my parents broke my first few animals. its the trick of the trade.

Thats the first time I heard that it was bad for calves to drag halters

inthebarnagain said:

All of the above and NEVER LET THEM DRAG A HALTER!!!!!!!   That is the absolute worst thing you can do for one that drops its head, that just encourages it. 

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Whoa here fella, we have had exceptionally good luck by letting calves drag halters, we generally do this for 7-10 days before we even think about tieing the calves up, You really shouldn't make a blanket statement like that because what works for you may not work for me, not to be rude but who died and made you all knowing??

A better way of approaching this problem with the head down steer is to give your ways that work and not condemn other methods, whew with that off my chest

As to the calf with the old head down tricks you might rewards when the calf behaves and when he misbehaves immediately tie him high and leave him until he gets tired, he will either learn or ultimately go to the feedlot, either way don't let you daughter get hurt
good luck

I also let my calves drag halters. It teaches them to give and stop when pressure is on the rope. Never had a problem with a calf turning their heads away unless it was mishandled and is afraid of the humans hand. I have also seen too many calves being "led" to early and they get away, and then the habit has started.

I have seen a lot of ANIMALS with PEOPLE problems.  I have rarely seen a PERSON with an ANIMAL problem.

My personal preference is I don't believe in dragging halters.  When the halter goes on, the calf knows its time to work.

I used one of the clip in nose rings one time on a very wild Chi heifer.  It worked on her, but I don't like them.

How heavy is the calf now?  If you its 800 lbs +, you need assitance from a donkey or tractor.  If smaller than that, you can probably handle it.

Have you ever learned the art of "flipping" a calf?  Use a long rope halter.  If you don't have a long one (you can call sullivans and they'll make you one), you can tie two together.  If you have access to a real stout pipe fence, get him out there and walk him.  As quick as he takes off, get a couple of dallies on that post and the calf will flip himself head over heels if he hits the end hard enough.  He'll also think you did it.

If the calf isn't flat mean, a donkey can work wonders.  You tie the calf to the donkey and it will quickly learn to go where the donkey wants to go.