Quantcast Obese gene

Sponsors







Author Topic: Obese gene  (Read 21362 times)

Offline -XBAR-

  • State Champion Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 3431
  • Karma 165
  • SASKVALLEY ALAMO 8A
    • View Profile
Re: Obese gene
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2014, 07:30:14 AM »
My whole long and winding road with crossbreeding started with reading about the Nazi's (sorry, but it was them)

There is much to learn from their approach.  If only the Nazi ideology had been applied to livestock and not humans.   

 'Keep your blood pure,
 It is not yours alone,
 It comes from far away,
 It flows into the distance
 Laden with thousands of ancestors,
 And it holds the entire future!
 It is your eternal life'

-There is no substitute for observation-

Offline knabe

  • National Champion Poster
  • **********
  • Posts: 13096
  • Karma 355
    • View Profile
Re: Obese gene
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2014, 09:04:11 AM »
Nice paper. Need to reread.
"The generation that told us to question authority, has now become the Authority we cannot question!"

Offline knabe

  • National Champion Poster
  • **********
  • Posts: 13096
  • Karma 355
    • View Profile
Re: Obese gene
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2014, 09:10:57 AM »
Nazi model was flawed due to anthropogenic projection.

Model required constant repetition of a lie, almost chant like.

"The generation that told us to question authority, has now become the Authority we cannot question!"

Offline librarian

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1495
  • Karma 47
    • View Profile
    • puregrassbeef.com
Re: Obese gene
« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2014, 06:44:10 PM »
Do you think the tt cows would have more fat deposition in their udders? 
I have heard that one of the reasons Shorthorns fell out of favor was that they got hog fat in feedyards after WWII when they started really pushing corn.  Is that accurate?
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Offline librarian

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1495
  • Karma 47
    • View Profile
    • puregrassbeef.com
Re: Obese gene
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2014, 07:01:15 PM »
And here is a picture. The caption goes:
Lutz Heck (far left) and Hermann Gring (not surprisingly, on the far right) examining a relief map of the Białowieża Forest. The tiny figures represent characteristic game animals (elk, red deer, etc.); in the background a stuffed European bison looms. The horn sitting on the map is perhaps from a Heck aurochs. Image from Waidwerk der Welt, a catalogue published to accompany the 1937 International Hunting Exposition in Berlin.
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Offline HerefordGuy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 442
  • Karma 11
    • View Profile
    • Decker Herefords
Re: Obese gene
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2014, 02:48:43 PM »
And here is a picture. The caption goes:
Lutz Heck (far left) and Hermann Gring (not surprisingly, on the far right) examining a relief map of the Białowieża Forest. The tiny figures represent characteristic game animals (elk, red deer, etc.); in the background a stuffed European bison looms. The horn sitting on the map is perhaps from a Heck aurochs. Image from Waidwerk der Welt, a catalogue published to accompany the 1937 International Hunting Exposition in Berlin.
Because so much variation was lost when cattle were domesticated, I don't think you can reconstruct aurochs from domestic cattle. You can make something that looks similar, but the DNA is not necessarily the same.

Offline HerefordGuy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 442
  • Karma 11
    • View Profile
    • Decker Herefords
Re: Obese gene
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2014, 02:59:37 PM »
i guess one thing i don't understand or forgot, is how thousands of small effects don't get lost due to error, especially if the training population is diverse and the pathways have little overlap between individuals. to me, this marbling thing seems to be left over pathway energy as opposed to any direct effect.
Are you talking metabolic pathways?

The larger the effect the more accurate the estimated effect size is. The smaller the effect, the less accurately its effect is estimated. But, when we do the analysis, even though the effects are small they cluster in the same gene networks. In my mind this highlights that individually each gene/variant (which is tagged by a marker) has little/no predictive ability. But, if we look at hundreds or thousands of effects we now have predictive ability.

The populations are not diverse, they usually contain individuals from a single population/breed.

Because we are dealing with small effects, we need large sample sizes. That is why we don't even attempt to create a genomic prediction unless we have over 1,000 samples. The larger the sample, the better the effect is estimated.




Offline librarian

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1495
  • Karma 47
    • View Profile
    • puregrassbeef.com
Re: Obese gene
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2014, 03:04:37 PM »
after that detour, back to the selection pressure for fat deposition question

Biosci Biotechnol Biochem. 2000 Oct;64(10):2240-2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11129604
Differential response of obese gene expression from fasting in bovine adipose tissues.
Kim H1, Chi Y, Chung K, Kim K, Choi Y, Baik M.
Abstract
To understand the molecular mechanism for intramuscular fat deposition, the expression of the obese gene was examined in response to fasting. Food deprivation for 48 h induced a decrease in the level of obese mRNA in pooled adipose tissues (abdominal, perirenal, subcutaneous, intermuscular and intramuscular). The expression of obese mRNA was examined for individual adipose tissue from several fat depots. It was highly expressed in perirenal adipose tissue, but fasting did not affect its expression level in this tissue. Moderate levels were detected in subcutaneous and intermuscular adipose tissues, and a fasting-induced decrease in obese mRNA was apparent in these tissues. The expression level of the obese gene in intramuscular adipose tissue was very low and did not respond to fasting.

So, yes, it seems to be about those little cells filling up or emptying out depending upon the energy requirements.  But, rather than thinking about this in terms of gluttony and a fast track to marbling, I am trying to think of it in terms of reproductive fitness.  I think it was Mill Iron who said that cows are supposed to fluctuate in weight between winter and summer, and his made up for their weight loss over the winter by getting fat in the summer.  Seems natural enough.  I read in one of those old accounts of cattle in Scotland, that the best meat was the "new meat" laid on in the summer after the animal had starved over the winter.  The experts always tell us once you lose that fat, the meat will never marble, but I wonder.

But about fertility and milk production vs. fat deposition.  I was thinking about my Galloway cattle, who seem to have not much milk, but what they have seems to be "thick" and "high test".  The Galloways also store fat in the muscle instead of between the muscles or as back fat.  Maybe they can get it out faster that way.  These cattle are evolved to survive hard times in a cold wet climate with scant forage. They fatten easily.
Studying that, I came up with this about the Obese Gene and Milk Fat
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0063406
excerpts for those who don't like to plow through all that jargon:

Although a number of cellular, molecular and genetic studies have been performed with FTO, its functions and effects are far from being understood. Even less is known about RPGRIP1L. Considering that the FTO gene including its linked genomic neighborhood affects fat deposition in humans, the question arises, whether this gene region also affects the amount of fat delivered in milk during lactation. If the FTO locus does not only affect fat synthesis but is also involved in the regulation of energy balance, we would also expect additional effects on other milk components.

Our findings suggest that the FTO region not only regulates milk fat yield, but also the total energy content of milk. With regard to GWAS in humans, the FTO region has been repeatedly associated with body mass index and obesity. However, studies with lean mass have not been performed. To further test the pleiotropic effects of the FTO region, the analysis of traits characterizing body composition would be of interest. But body mass measurement of dairy cattle is not a matter of routine under production conditions.

The effects of the genetic variation in the FTO region accounted for about 1% of the corresponding traits variance in the analyzed cattle population. Even if the effect is small, it seems to be consistent across species and deserves more attention as a factor contributing to complex traits, which are expected to be formed by small effects of many loci [7].

In summary, our study in dairy cattle provides evidence that the obesity-associated FTO gene region accounts for variation in milk fat yield. For the first time, we show that the region does not only control fat but also protein yield and that both milk composition traits are regulated in the same direction. Therefore, we suggest that the FTO gene region controls the energy amount secreted during lactation. The position of the associated haplotype blocks and SNPs, their direction of effect and allele frequency distribution detected in our cattle study suggest that at least two causative variants account for differences between genotype classes. These mutations most likely underlie different selection pressure for production traits. In turn, this indicates different biological functions of the involved gene variants with respect to control and regulation of fat and protein metabolic pathways and in regard to maintaining energy homeostasis and controlling energy partitioning. Besides FTO, the neighboring upstream gene RPGRIP1L and the downstream non-coding genes U6ATAC and 5 S rRNA have functional relevance for milk fat and protein yield.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 03:07:19 PM by librarian »
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Offline knabe

  • National Champion Poster
  • **********
  • Posts: 13096
  • Karma 355
    • View Profile
Re: Obese gene
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2014, 03:40:48 PM »
Are you talking metabolic pathways? yes

The populations are not diverse, they usually contain individuals from a single population/breed.
the sources of contributions are not diverse within a population?
the locations of effects are not diverse?


if one looks across breeds, understanding the divergence past the markers (or the marker not even being present, rendering them with lower utility, what percent snp difference is there over the entire regions of interest? what is the distribution of snps past the markers? ie are they random, in upstream, downstream regions, within introns, within exons or both compared to upstream downstream regions or is it all just random, understanding random is a relative term and certain regions have different levels of conservation/pressure.
"The generation that told us to question authority, has now become the Authority we cannot question!"

Offline HerefordGuy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 442
  • Karma 11
    • View Profile
    • Decker Herefords
Re: Obese gene
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2014, 04:35:53 PM »
Quote from: knabe link=topic=48527.msg404825#msg404825 date=1397248848
[color=#ff0000
if one looks across breeds, understanding the divergence past the markers (or the marker not even being present, rendering them with lower utility, what percent snp difference is there over the entire regions of interest? what is the distribution of snps past the markers? ie are they random, in upstream, downstream regions, within introns, within [/color]exons or both compared to upstream downstream regions or is it all just random, understanding random is a relative term and certain regions have different levels of conservation/pressure.
We haven't had the sequence data to look at this yet.

The region of interest is the entire genome. We don't pick out gene regions in a genomic prediction. We fit the entire genome.

Offline HerefordGuy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 442
  • Karma 11
    • View Profile
    • Decker Herefords
Re: Obese gene
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2014, 05:59:34 PM »

Offline knabe

  • National Champion Poster
  • **********
  • Posts: 13096
  • Karma 355
    • View Profile
Re: Obese gene
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2014, 09:01:36 PM »
did i read that right? a behavior "gene".


perhaps ext without his behavior gene has more marbling.


one would think so as he's low, but some of his offspring are triple him and grand get some are even higher.


perhaps his behavior is masking a lot of marbling.
"The generation that told us to question authority, has now become the Authority we cannot question!"

Offline librarian

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1495
  • Karma 47
    • View Profile
    • puregrassbeef.com
Re: Obese Gene: Survival of the Fattest?
« Reply #42 on: April 12, 2014, 12:06:10 PM »
I have often wondered the same about EXT, because I see that he does seem to transmit marbling.  Every time I tell myself that disposition influences marbling, I think, yeah but EXT was a supposed to be jerk and look what he did for carcass quality.

I think the management EPD would probably the most useful information in all this.
 
All this came up because I had a couple mid August calves that stayed on their mothers all winter and were weaned a couple weeks ago.  The mothers had grass hay, all they wanted, and minerals over the winter .  These are the fattest weaning calves I have ever had.  Usually I calve in March and wean in November.
The mothers are in really good condition and we had a long, cold winter.  One mom was a first calf Shorthorn heifer out of my Scotch type bull.  I was kind of knocking this heifer at one point for being too fat and carrying a lot of fat in her brisket.  The other was an old Angus cow that could get fat on "sawdust and sand".  Both calves are out of my Scotch Type bull (the Shorthorn calf is double bred). The double bred calf is an exaggerated version of another heifer I got out of that bull.
I saw a picture (attached) of another related heifer built the same way.
A smart person said the heifer in this picture might have the obese gene, and I assumed that was a bad thing.  Now I am rethinking it.
I am just posting the picture as an example of phenotype. I have no idea what her genotype is and I am not saying she has the obese gene, just saying all these animals are built the same way.

« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 12:09:44 PM by librarian »
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Offline Okotoks

  • State Champion Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 3042
  • Karma 121
  • Diamond Belvedere 29B
    • View Profile
    • Diamond Shorthorns
Re: Obese gene
« Reply #43 on: April 12, 2014, 01:12:30 PM »
There were some studies a few years ago that showed a direct correlation between disposition and the ability to marble. Maybe the descendants of EXT that had marbling just didn't get the bad disposition/poor marbling gene passed to them. (I am making an assumption they were better dispositions which might be wrong!)

http://www.cabpartners.com/articles/news/244/ritchie_asistaffpaper.pdf

« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 01:20:14 PM by Okotoks »

Offline librarian

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1495
  • Karma 47
    • View Profile
    • puregrassbeef.com
Re: Obese gene
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2014, 03:43:18 PM »
I have often studied harlan Richie's Historical Review of Cattle Type
https://www.msu.edu/~ritchieh/historical/cattletype.html
Does the marbling come from Emulation 31 or the ornery gene?

These are my fat calves.  I will just have to get the test, I guess, to check out the hypothesis.
Old timers, is the short fat calf the type that used to be around?  Probably the type Oakview says we are better off without.  I do think she is too extreme.
Yes, she has horns.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 04:47:34 PM by librarian »
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
19 Replies
10430 Views
Last post April 17, 2008, 06:32:18 PM
by red
23 Replies
6865 Views
Last post April 29, 2008, 01:03:07 PM
by Jill
0 Replies
1877 Views
Last post April 22, 2013, 09:54:11 PM
by Eggbert
18 Replies
6960 Views
Last post April 14, 2016, 09:19:08 PM
by oakview
4 Replies
2162 Views
Last post October 01, 2014, 09:16:45 AM
by oakview

Powered by EzPortal