odds on color!

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red

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The nephew had a Shorthorn cow, she's more of a roan. He bred her to our red/white herd bull. no chance of another bull & not AI'd. The calf is black! What are the odds on that one?

Red
 

Chap

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red+red= red .  100% of the time.  No way to get a black one out of 2 red animals.  Something is missing in the equation.
 

red

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our red/white bull does have some black coming from his sire.
The nephew said no other bull around.
Red
 

fluffer

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Hmm, that is just one of those wierd things  ;)

I had a double black cow bred to a black bull and she had a set of red twin heifer calves.  One is a dark red and one is a light red.

Fluffer
 

Dusty

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fluffer said:
Hmm, that is just one of those wierd things  ;)

I had a double black cow bred to a black bull and she had a set of red twin heifer calves.  One is a dark red and one is a light red.

Fluffer

It doesn't matter if she was double bred black, she can still carry the red gene. 
 

TJ

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red said:
our red/white bull does have some black coming from his sire.
The nephew said no other bull around.
Red

Was a black bull calf around?  Even a real young one?  What about a neighbors bull?  I guess anything is possible, but red + red should always equal red.  I've seen black + black equal red (black animals can carry the red gene), but never the other way around (red animals can't carry the black gene or they would be black).  Interesting.  

 

red

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nope, everything gets clamps early.
Hum, maybe is is a case of whoes your daddy!!? I should call Maury Povich to run a DNA test!

Red
 

ROAD WARRIOR

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Red - it is physically impossible for two red animals to produce a black calf. They both carry the recissive red gene and not the dominant black gene. Two black animals carrying both the dominant black gene and the recessive red gene can produce a red calf if the genes "line up" right but never the other way around. If she was never AIed I would look for a traveling salesman bull that came in the night or in tie outs if she was a show heifer. RW
 

Jill

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red said:
nope, everything gets clamps early.
Hum, maybe is is a case of whoes your daddy!!? I should call Maury Povich to run a DNA test!

Red
If she was in a pen with one that was clamped, it is possible he had one that didn't get make it in the clamp, just enough to produce semen, we stopped banding because of that very thing.
 

red

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Jill said:
red said:
nope, everything gets clamps early.
Hum, maybe is is a case of whoes your daddy!!? I should call Maury Povich to run a DNA test!

Red
If she was in a pen with one that was clamped, it is possible he had one that didn't get make it in the clamp, just enough to produce semen, we stopped banding because of that very thing.

nephew said no chance of an older calf being w/ them then. Humm.. the mystery deepens!

Red
 

TJ

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Jill said:
red said:
nope, everything gets clamps early.
Hum, maybe is is a case of whoes your daddy!!? I should call Maury Povich to run a DNA test!

Red
If she was in a pen with one that was clamped, it is possible he had one that didn't get make it in the clamp, just enough to produce semen, we stopped banding because of that very thing.

Jill is right.  Clamps are only good when they work & sometimes they don't work 100%.  The best method is castration & even them, you have to make sure that you get it all out. Also, I agree with Road Warrior... bulls jumping in at night & then back out or tie outs, if she's a show heifer.  But, my vote as the most likely cause is a clamped calf that wasn't quite a steer.  It happens.
 

red

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not a show heifer. no older calves running w/ cows. They'd all just be born. We ship all the others to a feedlot. might have to resort to DNA if we are really curious. Otherwise it just get's chalked up as a mystery because it won't be registered.

Red
 

fluffer

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Dusty said:
fluffer said:
Hmm, that is just one of those wierd things  ;)

I had a double black cow bred to a black bull and she had a set of red twin heifer calves.  One is a dark red and one is a light red.

Fluffer

It doesn't matter if she was double bred black, she can still carry the red gene. 

Yes, we had her DNA tested(before we bred her) and she is obviously hetero black.  But the odds of having 2 red twins from that mating were 12.5% as they were not identical.  Just an unusual occurrence  :)
 

red

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we had a set of twins born out of 2 black parents. One was red & the other black. How's that for weird?

Red
 

Dusty

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Here's one that will throw you for a loop....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=377839&in_page_id=1770&in_a_source=&ct=5

I guess it's possible for an F2 to take on the characteristics of the purebred grandparent...
 

red

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wow! You'd almost wonder if the mom had some explaining to do at first but looking at the parents you can see they are a bi-racial couple. That is really unusual!

 

fluffer

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red said:
we had a set of twins born out of 2 black parents. One was red & the other black. How's that for weird?

Red

Try having 2 sets of twins in 1 day both cows having 1 red and 1 black calf, and it being April 1st.  Hubby didn't believe me! 1 set was from 2 black parents and 1 set was from a red cow and black bull.  I bet that NEVER happens again

I think it is those kind of neat moments that keep us from getting board  ;)

Fluffer
 

itk

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Dusty said:
Here's one that will throw you for a loop....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=377839&in_page_id=1770&in_a_source=&ct=5

I guess it's possible for an F2 to take on the characteristics of the purebred grandparent...

Was it the twins or the ages of the parents that were supposed to throw us for a loop. I'm surprised the local DA didn't bring statutory rape charges against the mom.
 

Dusty

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itk said:
Dusty said:
Here's one that will throw you for a loop....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=377839&in_page_id=1770&in_a_source=&ct=5

I guess it's possible for an F2 to take on the characteristics of the purebred grandparent...

Was it the twins or the ages of the parents that were supposed to throw us for a loop. I'm surprised the local DA didn't bring statutory rape charges against the mom.

This was england, I'm not sure what the law is there.  In most states in America I believe it is not illegal for a 19yr old to be with a 17 yr old though.

Anyways the twins are what was supposed to throw you for a loop.  It just shows us a little bit about the unpredictability of genetics.....
 

Zdog

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fluffer said:
Hmm, that is just one of those wierd things  ;)

I had a double black cow bred to a black bull and she had a set of red twin heifer calves.  One is a dark red and one is a light red.

Fluffer
JUst this year i had a red roan calf out of a blue roan and a pure white bull. We don't own a clean up so it was legit. ;)
 
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