Ohio Beef Expo Maine sale

Help Support Steer Planet:

Doc

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 13, 2007
Messages
3,636
Location
Cottontown, Tennessee
The catalog is on PrimeTimes' website now. Bunch of cattle , bunch of cattle that are carriers of one or the other but hats off at least they tested. I just didn't see any kind of birth or weaning weights listed though, whats up with that? Or am I going blind?
 

DL

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
3,622
Doc said:
The catalog is on PrimeTimes' website now. Bunch of cattle , bunch of cattle that are carriers of one or the other but hats off at least they tested. I just didn't see any kind of birth or weaning weights listed though, whats up with that? Or am I going blind?


NOPE - your eyes are good! In years past they sometimes listed the actual BW and WW along with the EPDs but I didn't see any of those on a quick look. Probably pulled all the data right off the AMAA web site. I think the signs list BW but I don't know for sure.

What blew me away was the number of PHAC bulls - cut and keep the breed clean - good grief  :(

Hope the prices reflect the status - but I am an eternal optimist  ;)
 

shorthorns r us

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
900
Executive Summary:  There may be merit in carriers.

Bad Genes, Babies and Bath Water
First published in Double Helix Network News, Fall 1998, Revised September 2007
http://www.ashgi.org/articles/breeding_bad_genes.htm

by C.A. Sharp

Everyone has heard the phrase, "Don't throw out the baby with the bath water." But do dog breeders ever stop to consider how this admonition applies to them? Certainly not the novice who righteously declares that he will never, ever, keep anything that has even the possibility of producing the smallest genetic defect. Not even the experienced breeder who refuses to consider an otherwise excellent line because it sometimes throws cataracts. This tendency toward genetic over-kill not only culls dogs that might have something to offer, it can exacerbate the very problems breeders are trying to avoid. The following is a real life example of what can happen when breeders exercise short-sighted culling in the name of genetic disease control.

About twenty years ago, breeders of Basenjis launched a campaign to wipe out a fatal genetic disease called pyruvate kinase deficient hemolytic anemia (HA). HA is caused by a recessive gene. Dogs with a single copy of the gene are healthy, but those with two copies die. A screening test was developed that would indicate carriers as well as affected animals. Breeders zealously screened their dogs, eliminating not only affected animals but the healthy carriers from the breeding population.

Today HA is rare in Basenjis, but the incidence of Progressive Retinal Atrophy is significantly higher. As is yet another fatal disorder, a kidney problem called Fanconi's Disease. At the time, neither of these diseases had a screening test that would indicate carriers. (A DNA test for Fanconi is now available.) Had breeders been less fanatical in their pursuit of HA, they might have retained the healthy carriers in the breeding population, breeding them only to non-carriers so they could avoid producing HA-affected puppies. By such a method they could have retained the good aspects of those carriers, including freedom from genes for PRA or Fanconi, while gradually lowering the incidence of the HA gene. Now that a Fanconi test is available, they can use this approach for that disease.

Fortunately for the Basenji, there is still a native population of the breed in Africa. The Basenji club prevailed upon the AKC to allow them to re-open the stud book to admit some African-born Basenjis. This badly needed source of new genetic material comes at great trouble and expense for those breeders who make the effort acquire one of these imports. This option isn't even possible in some breeds, and even where it is, convincing a large registry like AKC to accept undocumented foreign imports is itself a daunting task.

In spite of what happened with the Basenji, this should not be viewed as an indictment of screening tests. The problem wasn't the HA test, but the drastic culling process that breeders undertook when using it. If there is a test which can identify carriers, make use of it. Breeders need to know as much as possible about the genetic potential of their breeding stock. Ideally, they should be willing to share the results, whether good or bad, with other breeders.

Knowledgeable dog people know there is no perfect dog. Even the best of them have faults. The faults are not only those conformation or behavioral problems you can readily observe, but also bad genes. Dogs have at least 80,000 genes. No matter how high the standards for selection of breeding stock or how strict the culling of offspring, every dog will have genes for unwanted traits. Experts agree that every individual--be he dog, human or cauliflower--probably carries, three "lethal equivalents." This may leave you wondering why we aren't seeing dogs and cauliflowers, not to mention each other, dropping like flies all around us.

Under normal circumstances, lethal genes remain rare. Natural populations breed randomly, maintaining a varied mix of alleles, or forms, of genes. Only occasionally will the right combination of bad alleles match up to produce an affected individual. In addition, the lethal nature of these diseases limits the ability of affected animals to pass them on to their offspring because affected individuals often don't live long enough to reproduce. But the breeding of purebred livestock, including dogs, is not natural or random. It is selective based on the wants and needs of breeders. As a result, the number of lethal equivalents in most breeds exceeds the average of three, the problem genes having been inadvertently concentrated through the standard inbreeding practices used to maximize production of desired traits. Two examples in Australian Shepherds are Pelger-Huet Anomaly and merle. Genes with lethal effects are only the tip of the iceberg. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of genes whose effects are anywhere from minor to extremely bad.

Breeders routinely evaluate breeding stock by studying conformation and/or performance attributes in minute detail. Virtues are weighed against faults, then compared to the virtues and faults of prospective mates. If the overall analysis is positive, the breeder will proceed. Hereditary diseases and defects need to be given the same kind of consideration, in and of themselves and in combination with all the dog s other traits.

Some faults are severe enough to eliminate a dog from breeding consideration entirely, but even genetic defects and disease may not necessarily fall into this category, in some circumstances. Remember the case of the Basenjis and HA. Dogs proven to be carriers of traits in which only homozygotes (those with two copies of the gene) are affected, can be used if care is taken never to mate one carrier to another and not to use them extensively.

If the mode of inheritance for a trait is unknown or polygenic, identifying carriers can be difficult. Individuals which repeatedly produce traits like hip dysplasia, epilepsy or thyroid disease should be pulled from further breeding because of the serious and debilitating nature of those diseases. But their relatives may be used if care is taken to select mates unlikely to carry the same defect. If at any point an individual proved to be a repeat producer of the defect, it could then be removed from the breeding program.

Many faults are variable in expression. This includes such genetic defects as hip dysplasia (HD) and missing teeth. In Clumber Spaniels, where HD was once almost universal, elimination of all affected animals was not an option if the breed was to be preserved. By selecting away from the most severely affected dogs, Clumber breeders have managed to improve their overall situation, producing more non-dysplastic dogs and fewer which are severely affected, even though HD is still common. A similar situation has occurred with Collies and Collie Eye Anomaly.

In the case of missing teeth, a fault common to show line Australian Shepherds, something similar could be done. There are sufficient quality dogs available with full dentition that dogs missing multiple teeth ought not to be bred. However, those missing one or two teeth could be bred to mates with full dentition which are out of families with full dentition. Twenty years ago, missing teeth in Aussies were almost unheard of. Twenty years from now the situation could be to nearly its starting point if breeders were conscientious about screening and mate selection--and none of the good traits those dogs have need be lost along the way.

The overall size of a breeding population must be taken into account before making final decisions on whether a dog exhibiting or carrying a defect ought to be bred. Australian Shepherds are numerous, but certain sub-sets of the breed are not. In North America there are thousands of Aussies, but in other parts of the world populations typically number only a few hundred breeding animals at best. Opportunities to add new stock are infrequent, especially in those countries with strict quarantine laws and import restrictions. Even in North America a breeder's selection of potential mates may be limited if his breeding goals are very specific, such as producing a particular type of stock dog.

In small populations, breeders may have no choice but to use some defective animals. The only alternative is to resort to increased inbreeding which will narrow the available gene pool even further and bring other, possibly worse, defects to the fore. If defective dogs are to be used, breeders should take special care to avoid subsequently in-breed on those dogs. Neither should such a dog be bred extensively. Among its offspring, only those which do not exhibit the defective trait should be considered for further breeding.

If breeders approach genetic disease with an objective eye and if they are honest with themselves and each other about the potential for producing genetic diseases and defects in any given cross, they can obtain healthy babies while the bath water full of bad genes drains slowly away.
 

knabe

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
13,639
Location
Hollister, CA
i think the PHA gene will turn out to be an important gene. 

i wish the association would pay to have a few individuals have their PHA gene fully sequenced as well as some upstream promoter region.

i wish jirl buck would select the animals to be sequenced, both carriers and free.

this probably won't happen though, but hopefully the gene will provide enough deveopmental biology interest that it will for the sake of basic science.

i feel it could be a lynchpin for some very important discoveries, in cattle, humans, and other species.

i have a hunch that it could be a holy grail of sorts, and be important for more than one trait, my guess, at least two productivity traits, and at least 3 phenotypic traits.

some people already know this, some may know it indirectly.  the traits above are not related to the heat wave look in steers and heifers for that matter, and you will see shortly a quick and dramatic change in show steer bulls and their ability to change the industry.  of this, i am certain.  it's going to be wonderful.
 

red

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
7,850
Location
LaRue, Ohio
I see there is even a double carrier heifer being sold! wow, 58 bulls & 58 heifers. Glad I'm sitting this one out!

What I don't understand is why some have the status pending. Knowing you need the results you'd think they'd get them sent in a timely manner. Trouble is it's usually the same people. I think if you go two years without your results availible upon printing your out. JMO.

Red
 

xxcc

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
613
Location
Sun River, MT
SRU ...AMEN!!!  I knew I didn't throw my Dalton and Paramount semen out for a reason.  I have even located some Duke of Heaven so that I could include him in the mix of what I'm trying to do.

AMEN Brothers and Sisters!

 

Telos

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
2,267
Location
Dallas, Texas
Well, I'm a PC Metric 707( In Toppers pedigree numerous times) and FR Magic fan. And this not because I know DL, but IMHO whoever buys Kaisers Tulip will be getting a heifer with unlimited potential.

I told myself to stop voicing my opinions via the net, but this time I could not resist. DL, congratulations on some great calves and good luck. Hope they find good homes.
 

DL

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
3,622
Telos said:
Well, I'm a PC Metric 707( In Toppers pedigree numerous times) and FR Magic fan. And this not because I know DL, but IMHO whoever buys Kaisers Tulip will be getting a heifer with unlimited potential.

I told myself to stop voicing my opinions via the net, but this time I could not resist. DL, congratulations on some great calves and good luck. Hope they find good homes.

Thanks Telos - she is a nice calf and (as always) I hope they go to good homes too.

xxcc - so does that mean you are going to be breeding Basenji's? I could see they would be a useful breed in the Montana winter ;)
 

Latest posts

Top