Opinions on how to handle situation

Purchased a young heifer (5 months old) from breeder that is very involved with youth scramble program.   She was purchased for a 9 year old that is just getting started, and who purchased this heifer with his own money.  Had trouble with her from the get go.  Called breeder early and told him of problems.  He suggested taking to someone that breaks professionaly. In good faith we did this for a 30 day period and an additional cost of $400.  Breeder finally returned phone calls after many many attempts and messages.  Was a real jerk about it.  Says he'll see what he can do...but no time frame or commitment as to what.  Could be six days or six months!  I think the thing that bothers me the most is the fact that he is so involved in a program that is for the youth, and yet clearly talks out the side of his mouth.
I want her gone despite the fact that she has incredible breeding and is really good.....before one of my kids requires a hospital visit.
Yesterday she charged our older daughter 2x and nearly got her penned to the ground (daughter has been around cattle and is pretty tough)...son nearly had eye put out by her yesterday as well  and can barely open left eye today it is so swollen and black.
I want to haul her back and get our money back as the heifer, nor breeder, has  been easy to deal with.  If he will even take her back and trade for another, I'm thinking what will I have to work with the next go round....and another load of money spent to boot!
We've been very fortunate over the years to work with breeders that want to make money, but want to encourage youth as well.   With that said, we've gone back to these breeders many times and recommended them to others, even when things might not have worked out just perfectly with a purchase.  If she had been bought at a sale or was a steer, I'd say we're on our own.  But, she was bought private treaty with a lot of "talk".
What do you think would be a fair way to handle this?  

So sorry to hear you are having that much trouble. I believe that youth and cattle is a great combination and can teach all involved some great lessons. not sure of the age of the heifer or breeding but if your breeder does not make it right we have a pretty good WMW heifer out of a blackcap angus that is broke and would be willing to trade. young kids need to have a good first experience with cattle so that they are not scared of them. you can call me at 240-394 -0063 ask for Nathan. The heifer we have was born May 2 2009 and she gets better every day and should make on heck of a maternal mommy in the field.

Document everything you can, then haul her to yards as fast as you can. I don't care what she cost or what her breeding, she's not worth it. You have been lucky so far with the injuries, why take a chance on a permanent injury or someone getting killed.

Ship her or shoot her - the "breeder" is clearly a jerk - even if he made it "right" - it won't be right. Life is too short to deal with badly tempered calves esp for kids - get rid of her asap

any heifer than needs professional training is not likely appropriately tempered for a 9 year old

chalk it up to a bad deal all the way around - your son will realize that life is not fair and sometime you run into creeps

Never never deal with this person again

Sorry for your trouble - what a rotten way to do business and deal with a kid

I am so sorry to hear about that much trouble. I believe that youth and cattle is a great way to learn life lessons. Young first time shoowman need to have a good first time experience with cattle so that they won't be afarid of them. I would get rid of her and if he dosen't take her document everything and go to court! Was she this way before you bought her? Good luck.

Thanks for the responses.  I don't disagree with any of you...as I stated I don't want her on the place.  We've turned her out today into one of our small turnouts (where we turn out nightly) and just dumped feed/hay in a feeder.  We're done working with her or even attempting to work with her.  This should give us a little time and SPACE!
We are not new to cattle and have worked with some tough cases before. She was little when we picked her up (is STILL  little..only 6 1/2 month old... but might as well weigh 2000#!)    She'd only been weaned 3 days when we picked her up.  His cattle in the pasture came to cake and we could walk through them.  The breeder did say he'd have to put cake out in his catch pens for several days to get them to come in where he could seperate calves/cows---1st clue?  The weaned calves were nervous and moved away from us in the pen, but weren't crazy.  We put her in the barn and started working with her 2 days after getting her home, as we wanted to give her a little time to get used to the new surroundings.  We picked up another heifer from a different breeder we've worked with the same day and she was completely broke within 5 days.  In fact we just hauled her to her first show  this past weekend, where she never placed lower than 2nd in three seperate shows. 
We wanted our son to show heifers so that he could travle and be a part of it with us.....family deal!  If we just drop it and sell her at auction, his start up money is gone and he doesn't participate.  We also don't have a long time to wait for the breeder, as heifers in TX have to be owned by Nov.1 to show.  I'm not hopeful that we can fix this with the breeder.  Honestly, I don't see us taking him to court either....nobdoy wins this way.  In this business, word of mouth has more punch and longevity than any court of law. 

IMO anybody who sells calves weaned just 3 days is not a breeder but a multiplier

If you have to put cake out so you can even get close to his calves is not breeding for temperament

Clearly he cares little about his reputation or the youth

You will not win and you will not get your money back - next time go elsewhere and rank temperament on top of your list - you son won't lose if he has a great experience with a calf he enjoys - even if she isn't the "pick of the litter" - good luck

I went through a 2 year horror show with so called SHOW CATTLE people in western Ohio- they put in $5000 worth of my embryos-and sold $15000 worth of calves- giving me $2500, which I let slide-to keep 10 bred cows 6 months untill they calved. THE RESULTANT CALVES brought approximately $13000 at thier (flip the bird sale-) and I got nothing. Then-they bogused up a $19000 bill for "feeding" the cows who were held hostage and in terrible shape. I had to give away 5 head-to rescue my cattle- and lost $15000 at least. I wont go to Louisville or Denver because if I see those no class dirtballs- im gonna lose it. They are living proof that beauty IS SKIN DEEP, a midget bulldog mutt and cartoon cowboy, come to mind. I think you should sue in your local court-with basic documentation for what happened, Alot of the damages stemming from the hiefer occured on your turf-and your costs will be minimal. You wont need an attorny, but the jerk who ripped you off will. If he doesnt show-its an automatic judgement. O0

It's a shame that things like this happen.. and they happen more and more frequently it seems.  The breeder is totally SORRY to not stand behind the heifer, take her back and either give you a full refund, or provide you with another heifer.  What a way to do business.  I've had a couple of horror stories myself the past two years, with "reputable" breeders, and I'll tell you, it really makes you question people's greed and decency.

Now I'll get off my soapbox..

You'll spend more money and time and aggravation trying to sue them.. been there, done that.  My suggestion is you place one more call, and tell them they have 30 days to make it right, or the heifer goes to the auction barn, and EVERYONE you meet will hear your opinion of them.  That's about the most damage you can do to their reputation, but it's doubtful that will have much impact, as you would think they would have considered that would be a ramification.

Good luck to you in the future.. and believe it or not, there ARE still good people in the cattle business!  Just takes a little doing to find the good ones

I find this story a little fishy for several reasons, it sounds to me that there are issues on both sides of this story.  I don't understand why anyone would purchase and take home a calf at 5 months old that has only been weaned 3 days and is not halter broke for a 9 year old.  If this calf was bought at a sale I could understand the problems much easier than I can a heifer that is bought private treaty, did you not spend any time at all with the breeder and heifer and know what you were buying, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to pick out a wild calf.  I also don't understand if the calf is this wild why you have children trying to break it, if you have already had 1 injured, why would you put another child on it and if it charged your daughter once why on earth would you allow it again! 
If you didn't purchase a halter broke calf I don't understand why you feel the breeder has anything to make right, you bought a calf that didn't work out, how is that his fault, and I really don't understand what these folks think you have to sue for, he has done nothing but sell you a calf, what is he liable for?  As far as calling John Boddicker, don't waste his time, the AMAA only guarantees that your heifer will breed and if you read that guarantee, show heifers are NOT included even in that.  I understand there are crooks in this business, I guess I just think somethimes people need to be responsible for the choices the are making.

Storys like this make me very thankful for the group of people I have gotten to know in this business. I hope everything works out well for your son. It would be awful if he couldn't participate.

Aggiegal: I can understand why you would purchase an unbroke heifer for you child. It is my opinion that a gentle calf can be and should be by a child with the help of a parent (as you implied your help). In fact, "back in my day" only rich spoiled rotten kids actually bought halter broke calves. The rest of us broke them ourselves, as that was considered part of the project. It can also save you some pretty pennies, but again, sometimes that is not an issue.
I do want to thank you though. I am struggle with some shorties that I have. Super wonderful calves, but to say they are spooky are an understatement. They cost a very, very pretty penny when I invested in them. I have worked my butt off to get them show ready but to no avail. You just made my decision a no brainer. Halters will disappear, and they will be  wonderful burger someday. I refuse to sell something that might get someone hurt and warning parents and kids just wouldn't "make it right" nor would it sit well with my concisous.

I think you are doing the right thing. Call the breeder, give him 2 weeks (as you have already given him enough time)  to make you happy (either trade heifers, or money back) or file a small claim against him in court (no lawyer on your part). Then start talking and name names. It is not liable if you are telling facts.

Sorry for your bad luck. Seems like this is happening more and more, big money will do that to an industry.

Jill said:

If you didn't purchase a halter broke calf I don't understand why you feel the breeder has anything to make right, you bought a calf that didn't work out, how is that his fault, and I really don't understand what these folks think you have to sue for, he has done nothing but sell you a calf, what is he liable for?  As far as calling John BodNice job!er, don't waste his time, the AMAA only guarantees that your heifer will breed and if you read that guarantee, show heifers are NOT included even in that.  I understand there are crooks in this business, I guess I just think somethimes people need to be responsible for the choices the are making.

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Jill - you apparently confused threads - I suggested that Forbes call AMAA because they have a MA bull that they can't get papers on - we have done that successfully in the past when the sellers weren't forthcoming with the papers -no breed association guarantees temperament - why would you even think that?

most good breeders want people to be happy with their purchase - doesn't matter if it was halter broke or not - if the heifer is evil and tries to hurt people the breeder should take it back in a heart beat

To Jill:
There is nothing fishy about this story at all.  We've shown cattle a good while and NEVER purchased one halter broke...so I wouldn't know what one of those look like.  We always break our own.  A five month old heifer shouldn't be that hard so we never even gave it a second thought.  Our ag teacher went with us on two seperate occasions before picking her up, so yes we did spend some time there.  We've turned down calves that were WILD despite being exceptional, so obviously this one didn't seem unmanageable.  It was the first interest our son had shown in the cattle, so we wanted to encourage that by getting him involved.  I'd like to think I have more sense than to buy something he couldn't even get in the ring.   As far as the three incidents (the eye and 2 charges) they happened at one time.  We had returend from a show and were penning steers in the barn (all penned in a 100 x100 turnout while we were gone).  The hefier charged my daughter 2x before she could get out and then tried to jump the gate, where my son was standing on the outside of the pen.   Even when you think they are out of the line of fire, things happen!   No...I'm not stupid.  We (the parents) have been working with this calf.    We called the breeder early and upon his request took her to a professional.  Spent $400 and got nothing out of it.  We purchased a SHOW HEIFER...this heifer will never enter a ring.  The breeder sold a SHOW HEIFER and she can't do her job....so yes, I expect him to back up the product he sold.  With your logic, if you purchased a hose at Home Depot and got it home and it had a hole in it and didn't work properly, you shouldn't be able to return it.  You bought it and had the responsiblity of checking it out before it was purchased.
We won't be suing....don't believe this is the solution to this or many other problems.  Won't contact the AMAA as they have no involvement in this.  If the breeder doesn't return phone calls or make it right, we will tell everyone we know and meet along the way to avoid him and why.  I have also considered having my child write a letter to all the junior association members and junior at large members of this breed association to let them know how juniors are treated sticking to the facts only.  This business is built on reputation, relationships, and word of mouth...negatiave publicity can do more harm than any court of law.

I have a purebred Maine heifer that I was going to keep back as I have already sold her flushmate, I would want to retain the option of a flush or would be happy to buy her back when you are done or if things don't work out for you, I am going to be selling some heifers at the salebarn anyway so probably could work a swap for your heifer... my heifer is Ali x Fisher Show cattle donor Jewel, sorry I can't do more to help. I have listed some chi cross calves on the classified forum and this heifer is as nice as the black.....Doc

Aggie Gal,

Is this the Gert heifer? 

Good luck with finding a heifer for your son.  Our now-6-yr-old daughter has been showing for 2 years but we have been lucky enough to have raised her calves and been able to get them on a halter from birth (literally).  I would certainly be leery of buying a non-halter-broke calf for a young kid's first showing experience.

Hope he can get a calf and get involved ... this is a great family activity!

DL said:

Jill said:

If you didn't purchase a halter broke calf I don't understand why you feel the breeder has anything to make right, you bought a calf that didn't work out, how is that his fault, and I really don't understand what these folks think you have to sue for, he has done nothing but sell you a calf, what is he liable for?  As far as calling John BodNice job!er, don't waste his time, the AMAA only guarantees that your heifer will breed and if you read that guarantee, show heifers are NOT included even in that.  I understand there are crooks in this business, I guess I just think somethimes people need to be responsible for the choices the are making.

Click to expand...

Jill - you apparently confused threads - I suggested that Forbes call AMAA because they have a MA bull that they can't get papers on - we have done that successfully in the past when the sellers weren't forthcoming with the papers -no breed association guarantees temperament - why would you even think that?

most good breeders want people to be happy with their purchase - doesn't matter if it was halter broke or not - if the heifer is evil and tries to hurt people the breeder should take it back in a heart beat

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Apologize DL, I did confuse the threads, and I'm not sure why it is typing his name like that it was correct when I typed it.

this is the best picture I have at this time, this is one of the two flushmates, the other is slightly taller and cleaner fronted, they are March 16 calves, TH pha neg, I have agreed to sell a local girl her pick and don' t really care much which one she picks... if you are interested I will get the " picking" done and get more pictures to you, the heifers are easy to handle and be around but haven't had a halter on..they weighed 640 and 694 with the taller heifer weighing the most on 9/25...

Sounds to me like you should just take the heifer back to the breeder and tell them you want your money back. I don't think you should even consider sueing that is what is wrong with people these days they always want to blame someone else.

I don't see how a breeder can guarantee one straight out of the pasture.  Breeder does not know what gentling and halter breaking techniques you used.  There may have been some talk about how great this heifer would work, but there is a difference between mere "puffery" of the product and an actual guarantee and/or possible misrepresentation.  Sounds like you took a chance and it just didn't work out.  Some breeders I know would have taken the heifer back immediately and substituted or refunded just for sake of local reputation.  However, there are some that don't have the long term in mind.  Hope you did not pay too much over market price.  I would feed her out and get revenge by putting her in the freezer.  Your kid really needs a nice mannered one -- just suck it up and get out the checkbook.