Opinions on some PB Simmi Bulls

Interested in these 3 PB Simmi bulls and want to kow people's opinions and experience with them.  Looking for something that could sire show ring phenotype without giving up too much performance. Also would like enough calving ease to use on mixed breed 2nd calvers.

Ebony's Grandmaster
WLE Uno Mas
ZKCC Custom Built (Choppers Full Brother)

I wasn't gonna comment since none of these bulls are really on my radar for various reasons, but one thing you mentioned struck me, so I looked em all up just to see if there was something I had missed. You said, "without giving up too much performance" and the three bulls you listed are in the bottom 1%, 10%, and 20% respectively for yearling EPD. Not saying those bulls don't have some genetic merit, but I don't think it's gonna turn out to be performance. You might get adequate performance for what you're doing, depending on the type of female you use em on, but I'd make sure I didn't expect these bulls to provide the pounds on their own without having some on the bottom side.

I have had some grandmasters,  they didnt grow very well at all and really didnt do it for me looks wise either. Kinda disappointed ! I've heard this from others also.

I will respectfully disagree somewhat with my Simmental colleagues in regards to Grandmaster - we have had a significant number of them, probably 100, and find them to be easy calving with good growth - is great to use on heifers - the best performing bull gained 5.9 pounds per day in a feed test environment with over 500 bulls and several others gained over 4, with the average of the sire group being nearly 1 pound ADG over any other sire group, including bulls with much higher EPDs - the females make great moderate framed cows - a lot of rib and body to make good production cattle -  like any bull he has his weaknesses and probably needs to be used on long-fronted cows with some bone and is probably not the best choice for purebred cows that need to be made pretty - use him on some composite or % females with some flash and you will be pleased and hope for all females -  and an opinion on EPDs - they are to a great extent, imo, a marketing tool to help sell mediocre cattle, no matter what breed - customers look at them so we do too - however when making breeding decisions we are more attuned to form and function of the mating with a look at EPDs secondary -  plus if you don't get a live calf nothing else matters -

It's hard for me to have an opinion at all on Grandmaster. I try to lean more toward only making positive comments or lending constructive criticism in regards to specific bulls and pedigrees, and this is one I have a very mixed review on. I have seen a handful of really nice females by Grandmaster. I've also heard more than one person say he sired the worst calves in the field and they'd never use him again. I saw one bull at a sale last year that just made me shake my head and think, "MAN, I'm glad I don't have any of those coming!"

I do have enough confidence in our EPDs, though, not to expect not to "give up too much performance" out of a bull that is ranked in the bottom 1% of the breed for YW. Especially when that bull was a #1 sire last year for registrations, meaning there were a lot of them in a lot of different herds. Yes...a lot of people still like him, so my advice is find out what he works on and what he doesn't work on, and learn from other peoples' lessons in cattle breeding. It sounds like JimF has had a bunch and has noticed some trends...that's the kind of person I'd wanna talk to before I used a bull like that. I will agree...some of the daughters I've seen are really nice. I just can't use a bull that seems to be as inconsistent as that one.

Any opinions on Uno Mas?  Wasn't he reserve bull in Louisville behind Broker?  Somebody should have some calves out of him.

I'll love Grandmaster, but have only had a few calves out of him. Below is a Feb purebred, out of a Pacesetter three year old cow. Everyone that comes by immediately finds her in the pen, along with a Movin Forward female we have. She has plenty of mass and power. She was our heaviest weaning heifer in our group, and was bigger than some of the steers that weaned with them. We just had a 2 year old Club King heifer calve a Grandmaster bull calf two weeks ago, and he is thick and good boned so far. We will keep using Grandmaster, and with him being the number one sire for registrations, your gonna see some good and some bad. Our experience has been good, thankfully!

Yes...Uno Mas was in Louisville, and he was Reserve to Broker. He's a nice bull phenotypically...he doesn't necessarily jump out as overpowering or supremely impressive, but the more you study him, the harder it is to really criticize him. He reminds me just a little of how I felt about Black Joker when I saw him in Louisville way back when. I don't think Joker ever beat the Snafu bull, but...well...you know... And I'm not comparing Broker to Snafu!

I've seen a couple of Uno Mas calves pictured, but not much out of him in person. A buddy had one 1/2 blood heifer calf that was nice...not overpowering in terms of growth, thickness, bone, or volume, but she was nice. No problems or issues...out of a pretty decent Angus cow.

I never liked Grandmaster, untill I seen a few. Went to a sale and ended up coming home with 2 Grandmaster 3/4 sisters. One out of Triple C Invasion cow and other out of Hart Doc that the Triple C Invasion cow was out of.

The bred heifer Invasion dam'ed one is powerfull, deep, and darn pretty to look at and very easy keeping. She will be used to make half bloods mostly for clubby production.

The open heifer by Hart Doc I think may be better in terms of more cowy look but will be hard to tell now as she got bad bacterial pneumonia on me late last fall and lost some steam.

EPD numbers wise he ain't much good but if you care at all about inbreeding us Simmental producers might have to give up on the "numbers" a little bit to find some outcross stuff especially in the calving ease side of the Simmental's. Is there better calving ease bulls if you are not looking for an outcross? I'd say yes. 

Till-Hill said:

I never liked Grandmaster, untill I seen a few. Went to a sale and ended up coming home with 2 Grandmaster 3/4 sisters. One out of Triple C Invasion cow and other out of Hart Doc that the Triple C Invasion cow was out of.

The bred heifer Invasion dam'ed one is powerfull, deep, and darn pretty to look at and very easy keeping. She will be used to make half bloods mostly for clubby production.

The open heifer by Hart Doc I think may be better in terms of more cowy look but will be hard to tell now as she got bad bacterial pneumonia on me late last fall and lost some steam.

EPD numbers wise he ain't much good but if you care at all about inbreeding us Simmental producers might have to give up on the "numbers" a little bit to find some outcross stuff especially in the calving ease side of the Simmental's. Is there better calving ease bulls if you are not looking for an outcross? I'd say yes. 

Click to expand...

we have a grandmaster nov 2012 heifer selling in our breeders world april 4 online sale that is made right and moderate. she is out of an ultimate force triple c cow. also have 20 full sib embryos. birth weight was 70.

I only have experience with Grandmaster but all of it has been good. I have cow that will be having her second calf and then a 1st timer that should calve any day and then some replacments. I wish they were closer and I would get some photos. I have not sent one GM calf to the sale barn. We even have a clean up bull by him. He is easy keeping and nice to look at. I will be breeding some clubby heifers to him in the spring for their first calf. They come small and then grow well.

Heres a few Grandmaster photos.
http://edjesales.com/eberspacher/backtobasics/index.html

I need some females to keep and I have a real nice black Simbravieh heifer (Manhattan daughter) and I am about to AI her to Uno Mas sexed semen. As someone else said, his yearling EPD is not good, but his BW and CE is top 1% and his API is top 2%. REA and Marb are also acceptable. The heifer side of things will help with the WW and YW. Looking forward to seeing this one on the ground next year.