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Offline Wright-Way Simmental

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Re: PETA is at it again!!
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2012, 12:54:18 PM »
Cut the BS I do get what you mean in terms of genetic diversity on a national level in terms of breed as a whole, I was referring to the opportunity to use different genetics on producer level in being able to access genetics that in alot of cases you wouldn't be able to afford to get your hands on.  I believe we are both correct it just depends which angle your looking at, breed as a whole versus individual producer.

Offline Limiman12

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Re: PETA is at it again!!
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2012, 01:15:58 PM »
On a micro level, AIing leads to MORE genetic diversity.    When i go to a production sale, one farm may have calves siredby a dozen different bulls in the twenty some offered at a seed stock production sale.

If I wanted to I could ai every cow to a different bull. 

Genetic diversity and improving quality across they breed are balancing acts.   I don't think that a  bull such as heat wave and all his clones has that much impact on genetic diversity in seed stock production for commercial cattlemen.   First, a tremendously high percentage of his calves are terminal.  Second, no one other the a steer jock would use him with the calving  issues that are likely to present themselves.  When a small percentage of cattle being raised are for such a different purpose then the other cattle, it makes since that within that small percentage bulls proven to produce the desired look will hold a prominent place in the gene pool.
Hard work beats talent, when talent doesn't work as hard.      Tim Tebow

Offline outspoken

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Re: PETA is at it again!!
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2012, 02:34:39 PM »
On a micro level, AIing leads to MORE genetic diversity.    When i go to a production sale, one farm may have calves siredby a dozen different bulls in the twenty some offered at a seed stock production sale.

If I wanted to I could ai every cow to a different bull. 

Genetic diversity and improving quality across they breed are balancing acts.   I don't think that a  bull such as heat wave and all his clones has that much impact on genetic diversity in seed stock production for commercial cattlemen.   First, a tremendously high percentage of his calves are terminal.  Second, no one other the a steer jock would use him with the calving  issues that are likely to present themselves.  When a small percentage of cattle being raised are for such a different purpose then the other cattle, it makes since that within that small percentage bulls proven to produce the desired look will hold a prominent place in the gene pool.

Now, you are taking my very tiny- one example-- and throwing it way out of proportion- and acting like this is something I believe gospel truth- for every breed- every reason- every body...

If I was going to make a reference towards the commercial breeder-- of which I have done to the millionth degree on here- and simple truth---been had my ass to me every single time--- for the simple truth of this is a SHOW CATTLE website-

I would have.

Now, for the AI to the commercial producer- I'll use the shorthorn breed and what they are doing right now, but any breed will work.  There are a half of catalog full of bulls being promoted for commercial use- with numbers that would make that cattleman jump on board like you wouldn't believe-- that aren't any more commercially geared than the damn 'roo posted and poked fun at on another post.  So don't go there.  For one that tops the list IMO is Mytty in Focus... that bull has been  used by more people worldwide than any other I can think of right now... I've seen tons of In Focus daughters-- and I can truthfully say they have been the most inconsistent sire group I've ever seen in my life- even sets of a dozen flushmate sisters.  and they're brothers:: they didn't cut worth a damn when hung upside down.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2012, 02:35:30 PM by Cut the BS »

Offline knabe

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Re: PETA is at it again!!
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2012, 03:42:32 PM »
Th th th th th th th th th tht

Trying to make the sound you make talking out of both sides of your mouth.
"The generation that told us to question authority, has now become the Authority we cannot question!"

Offline Limiman12

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Re: PETA is at it again!!
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2012, 05:56:48 PM »
My point was the eighty twenty is the extreme because the show world is extreme in the type they want.

If a bull is being promoted thatheavy, and used that heavy and is not improving the breed then those that use him are going to find out the hard way.   I do see the problem with the disconnect between the rail and the pasture they come from.   The guy that feeds them the last ninety days may not be the guy that backgrounded them, and very likely is not the guy that bred and raised them.  Therefore,  if the feedlot guy does know what breeding is behind the calves that didn't or I'd cut well, it is far from the norm.    Any black. Cattle that go through the sale barn at local sale barns are called angus cross.   We raise limis.  Most of our herd would be at least three fourth limi, but last year when they went through the auctioneer said, look at these thick made angus steers!   We corrected him, but how many people really follow there calves to the rail.   As a feeder calf producer, weaning weight is what you are after,   If they don't cut, that is the next guys problem.   

That is the problem, like I said genetic diversity is tempered with improving the breed.  I don't want to see every pos bull calf sire twenty calves. But with the  ability for several bulls to be marketed so heavy, care needs to be taken that the ones being chosen are right.  Lack of uniformity in cutability, gain, grading etc is what the market place is calling for.   A commercial cow calf guy being able to sync all his cows, get seventy five percent bred the same day to the same bull is going to have a much more uniform product to sell, then the. Same guy taking three hundred calves sired by ten different bulls spread out over five weeks to the market.  If he picked the wrong bull, then that is a problem, but that is not because of gentic diversity, it is picking a bull that does not produce what was promoted.
Hard work beats talent, when talent doesn't work as hard.      Tim Tebow

Offline bruiser

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Re: PETA is at it again!!
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2012, 08:27:56 PM »
We can cuss and discuss the genetic issues of the AI question for days and never come to an agreement. But the issue of PETA and their cronies needs our undivided attention. Just like the woman hiring hitmen I  mentioned in a thread a few days ago, these people think they're doing God's work on earth and are truly committed to it. The best thing we can do is talk to people we meet in our everyday life. Our  county Farm Bureau has an
Ag in the classroom day on the farm serving up to 450 kids in 4Th grade. I have helped for several years leading groups thru it. I get the usual questions from the kids, but every year I'm amazed at the questions from the teachers and their aids. Some of these teachers are from small rural towns and they still have misconceptions about farming and agriculture in general. Whenever we talk to someone like this we need to use that moment wisely. Remember that person will have a different view of our world than we do. The average city dweller doesn't know that corn in those endless Fields they drive by , mostlikly won't end up directly on their plate. Keep in mind you have the opportunity to " win them over to our side" in that short conversation.

Offline SIMMGAL

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Re: PETA is at it again!!
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2012, 08:33:03 PM »
We can cuss and discuss the genetic issues of the AI question for days and never come to an agreement.
Sorry to open that can...save 'em for fishin'!


But the issue of PETA and their cronies needs our undivided attention. Just like the woman hiring hitmen I  mentioned in a thread a few days ago,these people think they're doing God's work on earth and are truly committed to it. The best thing we can do is talk to people we meet in our everyday life. Our  county Farm Bureau has an
Ag in the classroom day on the farm serving up to 450 kids in 4Th grade. I have helped for several years leading groups thru it. I get the usual questions from the kids, but every year I'm amazed at the questions from the teachers and their aids. Some of these teachers are from small rural towns and they still have misconceptions about farming and agriculture in general. Whenever we talk to someone like this we need to use that moment wisely. Remember that person will have a different view of our world than we do. The average city dweller doesn't know that corn in those endless Fields they drive by , mostlikly won't end up directly on their plate. Keep in mind you have the opportunity to " win them over to our side" in that short conversation.

Don't drink the kool-aid!

In all seriousness, the young population is the most at risk for corruption by those involved in organization such as PETA. Good post.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cattle and that's pretty much the same thing as far as I'm concerned!

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Offline bruiser

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Re: PETA is at it again!!
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2012, 07:06:21 PM »
My point is (sorry about the soapbox again) the PETA folks have their agenda down pat. They have enough members and dollars to make the politicians sit up and beg. They also have leadership that knows how to use their money and numbers to get their message out. This fight isn't about whether we use cages for chickens, crates for sows , confinement buildings or anything like that. THEY WANT US OUT OF BUSINESS- PERIOD- END OF DISCUSION  And I truly believe they think the government will provide for them.

Offline SIMMGAL

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Re: PETA is at it again!!
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2012, 07:13:06 PM »
My point is (sorry about the soapbox again) the PETA folks have their agenda down pat. They have enough members and dollars to make the politicians sit up and beg. They also have leadership that knows how to use their money and numbers to get their message out. This fight isn't about whether we use cages for chickens, crates for sows , confinement buildings or anything like that. THEY WANT US OUT OF BUSINESS- PERIOD- END OF DISCUSION  And I truly believe they think the government will provide for them.
The question that we, as animal stewards, have to ask is WILL the Government provide for them. At our expense.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cattle and that's pretty much the same thing as far as I'm concerned!

Simmental and SimAngus bulls available year-round!

Offline RidinHeifer

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Re: PETA is at it again!!
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2012, 07:23:57 PM »
You think that's ridiculous? Look what we're having to deal with in Manitoba.  :-\

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20120215/dead-cows-roadside-memorial-manitoba-120215/


They tried to get one or two in Illinois too, but our state legislature did something right for a change and shut them down...they used the excuse that since the cows didn't have family they would be like really close friends.
Just because I own the ugliest cow in the world doesn't mean I can't be proud as heck of her. It also doesn't change my love of the game when she gets last every time.

Offline SIMMGAL

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Re: PETA is at it again!!
« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2012, 07:27:33 PM »
You think that's ridiculous? Look what we're having to deal with in Manitoba.  :-\

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20120215/dead-cows-roadside-memorial-manitoba-120215/


They tried to get one or two in Illinois too, but our state legislature did something right for a change and shut them down...they used the excuse that since the cows didn't have family they would be like really close friends.

Maybe it's just me, or is there something ironic about the words, "killed on the way to slaughter"?
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cattle and that's pretty much the same thing as far as I'm concerned!

Simmental and SimAngus bulls available year-round!

Offline SIMMGAL

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Re: PETA is at it again!!
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2012, 07:29:45 PM »
And also: "in memory of 71 cows"

Most likely the animals that were headed to slaughter were steers...unless they were pound cows. Would they be expected to know the difference?
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cattle and that's pretty much the same thing as far as I'm concerned!

Simmental and SimAngus bulls available year-round!

Offline Mtnman

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Re: PETA is at it again!!
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2012, 09:12:40 PM »
My point is (sorry about the soapbox again) the PETA folks have their agenda down pat. They have enough members and dollars to make the politicians sit up and beg. They also have leadership that knows how to use their money and numbers to get their message out. This fight isn't about whether we use cages for chickens, crates for sows , confinement buildings or anything like that. THEY WANT US OUT OF BUSINESS- PERIOD- END OF DISCUSION  And I truly believe they think the government will provide for them.

They absolutely believe that the government will do what ever it takes to provide for everyone, and they relish the time when we are out of business and our land, well it will just sit there in OPEN SPACE because we need that so we can remember when our country was the greatest food producer in the world. These people need to get a job and do something with their time other than tell us what a bunch of horrible people we are for murdering and maiming poor defenseless animals!! Yes I know that is a little dramatic but it is the truth!!

Offline bruiser

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Re: PETA is at it again!!
« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2012, 04:36:40 AM »
I remember reading somewhere the average PETA member is a 26 y.o. single female with an average income of 85k. I also read the average American is 3 generations off the farm. So with this in mind , imagine this persons thoughts on Ag issues. If you they can't  even raise a good tomato plant, how can we expect them to know anything about us. Then throw the latest trend of "vegan" and vegetarian that really screws things up. Personally I talk to them like they have no knowledge about any Ag issue ( which they don"t). A 15 y.o. country kid has twice the knowledge that they have.

Offline knabe

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Re: PETA is at it again!!
« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2012, 10:46:39 AM »
Sounds like some single cowboys ought to get busy. Guaranteed excess of women.

Probably a higher % of females there than the horse unit.
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