Pic taking reps for SP.

I don't think club calf people should be allowed to raise purebred cattle. I think it is akay for them to take pictures though...........I'm just kidding. I think maybe a professional livestock photographer"union" should be formed with a minimum of 3 weeks traing required. Federal vouchers could be given out to taxpayers to reduce the cost of a good digital camera also. This would stimulate interest and improve quality of photo's world wide. Because........if we could save just one photo......wouldn't it be worth it.  Also good photos of say A.I. bulls will increase their confidence and thus their self esteem also. They should then produce larger volumes and better quality semen. Also if the cow to be A.I.'d is shown a glamour photo of the bull to be used...I think this should increase the chances of her to sticking to the above described bull. And the calves of the above mentioned mating will have a better sense of history of their parentage also because actual photo's are available. For instance...if a bull is housed in Nebraska and is bred to a cow in Tennessee it is not always easy to get parental rights so the bull could visit his offsring. jmo

farwest said:

I'd be really careful what you said or what you show. You might need a good attorney. 

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My pictures came straight from the owners wegpage of the heifers above. THey are out there for all to see.

If an owner doesn't want their animal photographed I would assume they would tell the collection facility not to allow it. YOu can go pretty much anywhere today on a tour and they will tell you what can and can not be photographed. Usually it is posted. My thought, if you don't want your bull on tour then tell the owners of the collection facility that you would prefer your animal not be photographed. It is a public facility and there is an assumption of risk by placing an animal there. I have had bulls collected and i take them down for the collection and bring them home. THat is always an option as well. If there is nothing to hide I do not see a problem with it. I have to purchase semen based on information collected on the web and pictures. Rarely do I get to drive to Iowa to see the bulls I have purchased. Many breeders today are showing "in their working clothes" photos in ads, Dr. Who, Vanilla Ice, Irish WHiskey, Naughty Pine to name a few. If we had more integrity and honesty in marketing of selling animals we as breeders might not get so many structual mess's when using some of these bulls.
JMO

I've been checking w/ Janey at club calves if I post something from their site. So far we've worked well together.
Jeff at www.cattle.com also has a lot of pictures of bulls. I give him credit when i post from his site.

Red

I can sit on both sides of this fence.  Yes I'd like to see the bulls in their working clothes but while a good picture is worth a 1000 words, a bad picture is money out of my pocket. 

I campaigned a dog several years ago.  He was in the top 3, qualified & went to the big ones - Westminster & Eukanuba.  He was & is a stunning dog but imagine my dismay when I saw a picture of him on a message board taken from an awful angle & catching him - guessing mid bait catch.  It was AWFUL.  I asked them to remove the picture & told them I'd supply a better one.  Fortunately for me, they were easy to work with.  On another occasion,  I had someone call wanting to use him but they had questions regarding his rear legs - which were/are fine but they felt that from the picture their friend took, they were too straight.  I never did see those pictures but have to assume that again they were taken at a less than flattering angle.  Now, having said all that, I have nothing to hide.. if anyone were ever to ask to put their hands on this dog, they could & see exactly what he is & isn't.  Its just that we've all seen pictures that are very bad. 

Brings me to another point.. who owns the rights to pictures taken of an animal?  The owner?  The photographer? 

What some of you are talking now and defending the thread on is not what the thread started about.  Read the first few posts.  Someone was wanting reps to look at bulls in their area, possibly in studs, the rule would be to take pictures and give opinions.  No one ever mentioned the pictures would be shown to the owner before they were posted on the www.  Taking pictures at studs, yes, but wanting a part of this website to be designated to put these pics on is totally unethical unless ok'd by the owners.  I've got news for ya, most anint gonna get posted.  Also, everyone talks and talks about working clothes, working clothes.  The steers we're all after these bulls to throw, are they in their working clothes when they enter the ring.  Hell give me one when i fix him up that looks like his daddy did in Denver, i don't care how he looks in the corral.  I think red's posts have said the expos would be a good place to take pics and show without permission, it's expected.

I think myt is on to something. Only the American Shorthorn Assc should hire national photagrapher as a full time job. They would take photos of how the bulls really are and not just how they look in the photo. All a.i. sires would be required to have their photos taken by the official photagrapher. There would be a 12 person panel to straighten out any complaints of unfavorable angles and whatnot. The photagrapher would then be set up on a epd system on how well he did his job and his consistency and accuarcy of his photo taking could be judged. Also all photographers say 20 years from now would have to use the same angles and lighting(as not to give an unfair advantage) as the old photos used. We should decide now on whether to use conventional cameras or the digital ones. The national directors would form a blue ribbon committee to decide the merits of both systems and then they would report at the next national meeting on the official photagraphy system to be used. It is very important that the national photagrapher be of utmost integrity. In fact I'm not sure that he or she won't be more important then the breeds ceo. I wouldn't be surprised if the breeds growth and success will hinge upon our choice of a photagrapher. I think we should get one from outside the breed. And make dang sure Cagwin doesn't have an undue influence on either he or she. The official camera should be realigned and recalculated 3 times ayear also in order to keep things on the up and up. Also spot checks should be done at photo sessions by the ceo or a ceo appointed checker upper on. The photagrapher would be paid 50 cents a mile, a good wage, and tips of up to 200$. Any tip over 200$ would be subject to a 15% federal tax to help fund various photo training schools in the U.S. and Mexico. jmo

aj, what ever you smoke send me some. O0

;D

i say take the pics and post them. they are on display

OH Breeder said:

farwest said:

I'd be really careful what you said or what you show. You might need a good attorney. 

Click to expand...

My pictures came straight from the owners wegpage of the heifers above. THey are out there for all to see.

If an owner doesn't want their animal photographed I would assume they would tell the collection facility not to allow it. YOu can go pretty much anywhere today on a tour and they will tell you what can and can not be photographed. Usually it is posted. My thought, if you don't want your bull on tour then tell the owners of the collection facility that you would prefer your animal not be photographed. It is a public facility and there is an assumption of risk by placing an animal there. I have had bulls collected and i take them down for the collection and bring them home. THat is always an option as well. If there is nothing to hide I do not see a problem with it. I have to purchase semen based on information collected on the web and pictures. Rarely do I get to drive to Iowa to see the bulls I have purchased. Many breeders today are showing "in their working clothes" photos in ads, Dr. Who, Vanilla Ice, Irish WHiskey, Naughty Pine to name a few. If we had more integrity and honesty in marketing of selling animals we as breeders might not get so many structual mess's when using some of these bulls.
JMO

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do you know where I could find the mature photos of Naughty pine, and Dr.Who?

Yeah.  The owners

Would a portrait or an artists rendition be legal? One could sneak into a bull stud and quickly do a pencil sketch and get out. However...could you sell a painting or a sketch of a bull you didn't own. And do sketches have the same integrity as an actual photo. Is a sketch on the same legal as a photo in the eyes of the law. It might be best to have a hidden camera in say a briefcase...take the tour....take a picture....put it on the web....under a false identity. You could go under the name...say....the Edson Redneck or something similar.

farwest said:

Yeah.  The owners

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BOTH were featured in Show CIrcuit. I posted the picture directly from Show Circuit on here. IF you go to the owners of Naughty Pine's web sight they had pictures of him in the field, mature. THE OWNERS put the pictures in Show Circuit.

BCCC said:

OH Breeder said:

farwest said:

I'd be really careful what you said or what you show. You might need a good attorney. 

Click to expand...

My pictures came straight from the owners wegpage of the heifers above. THey are out there for all to see.

If an owner doesn't want their animal photographed I would assume they would tell the collection facility not to allow it. YOu can go pretty much anywhere today on a tour and they will tell you what can and can not be photographed. Usually it is posted. My thought, if you don't want your bull on tour then tell the owners of the collection facility that you would prefer your animal not be photographed. It is a public facility and there is an assumption of risk by placing an animal there. I have had bulls collected and i take them down for the collection and bring them home. THat is always an option as well. If there is nothing to hide I do not see a problem with it. I have to purchase semen based on information collected on the web and pictures. Rarely do I get to drive to Iowa to see the bulls I have purchased. Many breeders today are showing "in their working clothes" photos in ads, Dr. Who, Vanilla Ice, Irish WHiskey, Naughty Pine to name a few. If we had more integrity and honesty in marketing of selling animals we as breeders might not get so many structual mess's when using some of these bulls.
JMO

Click to expand...

do you know where I could find the mature photos of Naughty pine, and Dr.Who?

Click to expand...

habegers site and traush's site

BCCC said:

OH Breeder said:

farwest said:

I'd be really careful what you said or what you show. You might need a good attorney. 

Click to expand...

My pictures came straight from the owners wegpage of the heifers above. THey are out there for all to see.

If an owner doesn't want their animal photographed I would assume they would tell the collection facility not to allow it. YOu can go pretty much anywhere today on a tour and they will tell you what can and can not be photographed. Usually it is posted. My thought, if you don't want your bull on tour then tell the owners of the collection facility that you would prefer your animal not be photographed. It is a public facility and there is an assumption of risk by placing an animal there. I have had bulls collected and i take them down for the collection and bring them home. THat is always an option as well. If there is nothing to hide I do not see a problem with it. I have to purchase semen based on information collected on the web and pictures. Rarely do I get to drive to Iowa to see the bulls I have purchased. Many breeders today are showing "in their working clothes" photos in ads, Dr. Who, Vanilla Ice, Irish WHiskey, Naughty Pine to name a few. If we had more integrity and honesty in marketing of selling animals we as breeders might not get so many structual mess's when using some of these bulls.
JMO

Click to expand...

do you know where I could find the mature photos of Naughty pine, and Dr.Who?

Click to expand...

http://www.trauschfarms.com/2007Sires.html    Naughty Pine

I know I am getting annoying but how about this. Steer Planet could obtain a blimp(steer planet logo on the side). Then at major cattle shows they could use airial photography. Maybe we could catch philmcracken taking a leak down in the yards. Seriously thought we could zoom in and get top shop of bulls. Analize the ham-loin junction and whatnot. Also videos could show how the tops of the cattle tie together. There overall thickness from the top. I doubt BEVO has ever been ultrasounded for carcass traits and an airial photo would give us a better idea of his potential use as a clone. Also "Ralphie" Colorado Universities buffalo could be analyzed as he circled the football field.. We could make sure he was changing leads correctly. The Boomer Sooner wagon could be caught on tape forever as it overturns in the national champion game. (from an overhead view). This is the kind of technology that could have prevented say the big mac deal(charolais steer painted black). We may have been able to detected a missed spot in the steers top beacause of the airial photo capability. Night vision would be great but it would be pretty costly I would think. The Steer Planet blimp could become the official blimp of all kinds of events. Also if say Dolly Parton was in attendence some great shots of her could be obtained. I think structeral correctness could be evaluated because if cattle roached when they walked it could easily be seen via the airial shot. Or anyone roaching for that matter. jmo

I did not read all of these posts, so I may be repeating.

Here I go with my Dad again. (I've never had an original thought, I just repeat my Dad's words of wisdom) He always said some of the ugliest cows and ugliest bulls have the best calves. How true.

I guess it is important to see a bull's picture, but that pic does not give you all angles. The very first thing I look at on any bovine is feet and the way they walk. And who knows what has been done to some of the promotional photos.

Maybe the wave of the future should be that people promoting bulls need to make a video. Lets see what the fat, fluff and fur calf looks like and see how he walks as a calf and then do a video of him as a mature bull.

But the true test is what do the calves look like......all the calves, not just the 1 in 100 that turn out good thanks to the cow.

My opinion and 40 cents won't buy a Pepsi. The trouble with that is I am a Pepsiholic!

Stay warm.

Malinda

farwest said:

We start posting pics on the web of other peoples critters and were going to lose the privelage of going through these studs

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EXACTYLY!!!