Planned C-sections

Ok had the vet out this afternoon to check some cows and once he reached into on of our first calf heifers he suggested we schedule a c-section. The calf is very large, estimated to be about 100lbs now, and she is a smaller heifer. What are your thoughts on this? She is due the 24th and he has suggested that we schedule for the 18th. He said the outcome would be about a 70% chance for the cow and the calf should be fine. I am really nervous with the whole senario, she is a Sonny x Mona Lisa and I had/have high hopes for her. Thanks for the feedback.

C-Sections are never fun with cows.  But I would take your vets advice in that situation.  If its a small heifer and she already has a 100 lb calf in her, I would say you are more than likely in for a difficult birth that could very well result in a C-Section planned or unplanned.  With that in mind I would probably lean towards doing the scheduled C-Section.  When you are prepared there is a much better outcome than if you let her go into labor, start having difficulty, and then have to do a C-Section.  One thing to remember, if you do a planned C-Section have some cholostrum on hand. When doing planned C-Sections before labor actually starts they dont always let their milk down right away.  So have some cholostrum on hand and be prepared to help her raise the calf for a few days.

Our vet is very good at palpation, but he would never pretend to be able to gauge ones size that accurately.  Before I went that far I'd sure want to see a sonogram and then I'd still give her a chance to have it.  I have yet to ever have a c-section done in 20 years of calving 40-50 heifers a year and 250 cows.  People are way too quick to go to extreme measures.

Your veterinarian may offer you the option to induce the cow to calve on the day of the scheduled c-section. Allow her to progress into labor and perform a c-section if she fails to calve in a timely manner. Priming the calf with dexamethasone will better prepare it for survival.

Thanks for the feed back. Like I said I a very nervous and I have decided to have another vet from another practice come out and tell me what he thinks. An feedback is still more than welcome.

What does a sonagram machine cost I wonder? If you have a bunch of c-sections would this be a good investment?

Showin a Shorty said:

Thanks for the feed back. Like I said I a very nervous and I have decided to have another vet from another practice come out and tell me what he thinks. An feedback is still more than welcome.

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Good idea.  I took a heifer in a few months back, after losing one bred similarly, to see what he thought about this calf's size and whether a c-section would be necessary or not.  This is a vet I've always used and highly trust.  He examined the heifer and said the calf is only about 65lbs and that if she didn't have it within the next 10 days to bring her back up there to re evaluate.  The very next day she calved a 90lb heifer- that I pulled.  I don't know how to palpate, but apparently it's pretty difficult to accurately gauge the calf's weight w/ palpation alone..?  It can never hurt to get a second opinion.

cowdoc1973 said:

Your veterinarian may offer you the option to induce the cow to calve on the day of the scheduled c-section. Allow her to progress into labor and perform a c-section if she fails to calve in a timely manner. Priming the calf with dexamethasone will better prepare it for survival.

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I agree with this thought trend. It will help get the calf's lungs ready for birth.

Got the second opinion this morning and she needs one. It's going to be next Monday and I am supposed to induce on Sunday. I am going to pick up some fresh colostrum this weekend from my cousin that has dairy cattle. Any other thoughts on things that I should have on hand? Thanks again for all the advice!

This outcome will potentially ruin the heifer.  Hopefully you've learned from this and now know what type of bulls NOT to breed heifers to.  Good luck.

-XBAR- said:

This outcome will potentially ruin the heifer.  Hopefully you've learned from this and now know what type of bulls NOT to breed heifers to.  Good luck.

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I hate to wish bad luck on anyone-- but I see absolutely no positively good coming from this experience as well. 

I can almost forcast a ruint heifer- a dead calf- an expensive vet bill- and a bunch of unhappy people saying-- man i wish we would have...

Good luck-- you're going to need all you can get, IMO. 

You guys don't even know what bull the heifer is bred to. I don't get it that you would post up the replies that you have. I have had a half dozen or so C-sections over my lifetime and have never had a bad result. I hope the best for you. It seems to me that you have evaluated the situation carefully and have weighed your options and have a plan intact. Good luck & please let us know what your results are, good or not so good.

Thanks again for all the replies. The heifer was bred to a calving ease bull that has never thrown a calf over 70lbs, they have also all been unassisted. There were no red flags that went up when she was bred. We just look at it as a mating that just clicked differently and in the future will know. I am just glad that I am able to palpate and have been checking her for the last 2 weeks, and then had the vet check her instead of waiting for her to start labor. We are hoping for a favorable outcome but I am also a realist, and one of m favorite quotes is "if you have livestock you will also have deadstock." Thanks again for your responses and I will keep everyone posted.

CAB said:

You guys don't even know what bull the heifer is bred to. I don't get it that you would post up the replies that you have. I have had a half dozen or so C-sections over my lifetime and have never had a bad result. I hope the best for you. It seems to me that you have evaluated the situation carefully and have weighed your options and have a plan intact. Good luck & please let us know what your results are, good or not so good.

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A bull that throws calves anywhere near 100lbs shouldn't be used on heifers regardless.  I don't need to know what bull it was to say it shouldn't have been used.  You're telling me that on the csections you've had, all the cows bred back and never had any repro problems?  IF so, you my friend are the luckiest person in the world.

Showin a Shorty said:

The heifer was bred to a calving ease bull that has never thrown a calf over 70lbs, they have also all been unassisted.

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We now know the bull is not calving ease.  When you say "hes never thrown a calf over 70lbs," is that within your heard, or what was said of the bull when you bought him?  I just find it hard to believe that a bull could throw a calf that's nearly 50% larger than any calf it threw prior... Not calling you a liar by any means, that is just HIGHLY unusual- regardless of what you bred him to. 

-XBAR- said:

CAB said:

You guys don't even know what bull the heifer is bred to. I don't get it that you would post up the replies that you have. I have had a half dozen or so C-sections over my lifetime and have never had a bad result. I hope the best for you. It seems to me that you have evaluated the situation carefully and have weighed your options and have a plan intact. Good luck & please let us know what your results are, good or not so good.

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A bull that throws calves anywhere near 100lbs shouldn't be used on heifers regardless.  I don't need to know what bull it was to say it shouldn't have been used.  You're telling me that on the csections you've had, all the cows bred back and never had any repro problems?  IF so, you my friend are the luckiest person in the world.

Showin a Shorty said:

The heifer was bred to a calving ease bull that has never thrown a calf over 70lbs, they have also all been unassisted.

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We now know the bull is not calving ease.  When you say "hes never thrown a calf over 70lbs," is that within your heard, or what was said of the bull when you bought him?  I just find it hard to believe that a bull could throw a calf that's nearly 50% larger than any calf it threw prior... Not calling you a liar by any means, that is just HIGHLY unusual- regardless of what you bred him to. 

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I have had 2 cows that did not rebreed after their c-sections, but I have never lost a calf or a cow that has had a c-section, so I would say that I am lucky in that regard and I will say that if Showin a Shorti goes into the c-section well prepared that I would bet you that it will go well. JMO though.

IMO- if your bull is accurate?  You're going to have a tiny calf early born calf, and then a cow that won't milk... 

I would induce her and see what happens-- if you can't pull the calf-- then cut into the cow.  I have that feeling she'll deliver the calf...

-XBAR- said:

CAB said:

You guys don't even know what bull the heifer is bred to. I don't get it that you would post up the replies that you have. I have had a half dozen or so C-sections over my lifetime and have never had a bad result. I hope the best for you. It seems to me that you have evaluated the situation carefully and have weighed your options and have a plan intact. Good luck & please let us know what your results are, good or not so good.

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A bull that throws calves anywhere near 100lbs shouldn't be used on heifers regardless.  I don't need to know what bull it was to say it shouldn't have been used.  You're telling me that on the csections you've had, all the cows bred back and never had any repro problems?  IF so, you my friend are the luckiest person in the world.

Showin a Shorty said:

The heifer was bred to a calving ease bull that has never thrown a calf over 70lbs, they have also all been unassisted.

Click to expand...

We now know the bull is not calving ease.  When you say "hes never thrown a calf over 70lbs," is that within your heard, or what was said of the bull when you bought him?  I just find it hard to believe that a bull could throw a calf that's nearly 50% larger than any calf it threw prior... Not calling you a liar by any means, that is just HIGHLY unusual- regardless of what you bred him to. 

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A bull can have 100lb calves and still be calving ease. Its the shape not the weight sometimes. I hurt my back on a calf once, I bought the heifer bred to a bull I had never used and everyone said calving ease and such. The heifer had the calf by herself when I found them and it was cold so I bent over to pick the calf up and couldnt lift it. This was a few years ago when I was in shape. Had to wake my husband for help and the calf was 100lbs. I have a sled now.

what does a c-section cost?

A bull that throws calves anywhere near 100lbs shouldn't be used on heifers regardless.  I don't need to know what bull it was to say it shouldn't have been used.

So, are you saying don't breed a bull like say JPJ to a heifer? Several people I know have had 100 +ers by him. I don't care what bull or what breed , you will have certain genetic combinations that when combined create a heavier calf, even when that is not in either ones' background.

 

Showin a Shorty said:

The heifer was bred to a calving ease bull that has never thrown a calf over 70lbs, they have also all been unassisted.

Click to expand...

We now know the bull is not calving ease.  When you say "hes never thrown a calf over 70lbs," is that within your heard, or what was said of the bull when you bought him?  I just find it hard to believe that a bull could throw a calf that's nearly 50% larger than any calf it threw prior... Not calling you a liar by any means, that is just HIGHLY unusual- regardless of what you bred him to. 


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A 90 lb calf is less than 30 % larger, not 50%. She also hasn't calved yet, it could be 80 lbs. Time will tell.

Depending on what the heifer brings to the party, and what she has been fed a bull can throw a much larger calf then his norm.  Two sides to the equation, and the bull takes it all to conception, the heifer has nine months to work on the calf.

Good luck,  I hope the two vets were wrong