Polled Durhams and Shorthorns at 1904 Worlds Fair

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oakview

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The top picture is almost a dead ringer for the photo of Oakwood Royal King from Teegardin's ad in the 1935 Shorthorn World I have.  Right down to the white spot on the brisket.  The photo in my magazine has been retouched, as was often the case for accenting the rear quarter.  The backgrounds are slightly different, but the bulls are extremely similar. 

It is interesting to note that in the descriptions of almost all of the bulls noted in this thread, they seem to all be held in high regard because of their show ring record.  Not unlike today.  In Bert Hanson's ad in the '35 Shorthorn World, he claims that his herd bull, Shadybrook Monarch x, was "69 times champion in America's largest shows."  Not a lot of breeders have been to 69 shows in their lifetime, let alone taking a bull to that many shows.    Bert says in his ad that they have followed the "center of the road" in their breeding program.  He still used that slogan in the 60's.  Mike Studer and Steve Torgerson "discovered" Bert's Shadybrook farm in the late 60's and were quite successful with their purchases. 
 

r.n.reed

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The top bull is King Collynie Jr.Oakwood Royal King has good reason to look like JR. as they both are strong in the Marshall influence.Royal King was sired by Royal Count Jr.and out of a Count Jr.daughter.Royal King also happens to be the sire of Oakwood Emperor whose dam was sired by a Count Jr. son.Move over Frank Haumont.
The Shadybrook herd was also very strong in the Marshall influence and they never strayed towards the pony type like many of the other herds did.Thiemans put their herd on the map with a paternal half brother to Royal Count Jr.
They added a line of ponys when they became popular but culled them when they realized their bull customers did not want them.
 

oakview

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You're right about King Collynie, Jr.  Had I turned 2 pages ahead in my magazine, I'd have seen the same picture posted on the thread.  I noticed it just after I posted earlier.  It was in Albert Hulstine's Gray Gables farm ad.  If I'd only taken the time to flip a page!  There is a striking resemblance between the two bulls.

Thieman's ad features their herd bull, Count Coronet, and what they call the "greatest Polled Shorthorn female." Vanity Queen.  She was three times champion at the International and never defeated in 1932, 33, 34, and 35. 
 

RyanChandler

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That last bull , Thomas Leader 13C has always been one of my favorites from this time.  Looks to have carried quite a bit more muscle than his modern half bro, Coalpit Creek Leader 6th. 
 

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RyanChandler

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There's a lot to him, no doubt. It's the composition of these types that have always concerned me. How much of it is muscle I'm not so sure. 

http://youtu.be/r3WwRUyfiP4


It's a common theme to see the type of bulls in this topic presented w/ such a high level of conditioning that I don't know how anyone can accurately assess their composition.  I'd like to see the bulls in this topic in working condition at the end of the summer in a bcs 4-5 and see, once they lose all that fat, what's really left of them. 
 

r.n.reed

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Not much new under the Sun is there Ryan.Thats what strikes me when I read these old magazines,maybe a little more respect for the pedigree back then.It is still the one line pitch today and breeding cattle have to be fat to sell, you just have to find the line that melts the least and then hope that it produces in your environment.I just scanned my 2014 heifers which have some of this old breeding blended in their pedigree.They all exceeded 1'' rea/100,averaged under .10 fat and all but one had imf scores that would put them in the low choice range.Best of all the range of performance was narrow.A daughter of Frontline out of his dam had .05 rump fat,.06 rib fat and a 4.42 imf score at 379 days of age.I wintered these heifers for .68 cents a day.
 

Okotoks

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-XBAR- said:
There's a lot to him, no doubt. It's the composition of these types that have always concerned me. How much of it is muscle I'm not so sure. 

http://youtu.be/r3WwRUyfiP4


It's a common theme to see the type of bulls in this topic presented w/ such a high level of conditioning that I don't know how anyone can accurately assess their composition.  I'd like to see the bulls in this topic in working condition at the end of the summer in a bcs 4-5 and see, once they lose all that fat, what's really left of them.
I worked in the program that had Thomas Leader 13C and have been to Y Lazy Y and saw Coalpit Creek Leader 6th. Although half brothers and very good bulls they were quite different in some ways. I do not believe Coalpitt Creek Leader 6th was ever pushed or saw much supplemental feeding so his high body condition is a testament to his ability to convert feed. He was a massive masculine bull with depth and a good fat cover when I saw him. Xbar you are correct in that Leader 13C carried more natural muscling. 13C was a smoother longer bull and is pictured on a pasture in eastern Alberta in an area that is considered semi desert. There actually is cacti and rattlesnakes at that pasture! The grass is a hard grass and cattle do well on it but they need to be able to travel and cover some ground.
 

librarian

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I found the picture of Count Lavender,who I thought was the Bates cross in Bapton Sultan.
Described by Robert Bruce in http://books.google.com/books?id=sFEMAAAAYAAJ&dq=robert%20bruce%20ireland%20agriculture%20shorthorns&pg=PA39#v=onepage&q=robert%20bruce%20ireland%20agriculture%20shorthorns&f=false
Shorthorn Bull "Booth and"Cruickshank"  "Count Lavender" (60,545).
Bred by William Duthie, Collynie, Tarves, N.B.  property of J. Deane Wills., Bapton

So I don't know who the Bates cross was.
Also another bull, described as "Cruckshank on a Bates foundation". This bull reminds me of Columbus.
What this thread has helped me understand is the usefulness of a percentage of old Scotch blood.
Usefulness in terms of how it can be effectively used to restore that ability to convert forage that the industry thought, briefly, was no longer necessary.
From what I can understand, a Scotch cross on a true old fashioned dual purpose Shorthorn must have been the best thing since sliced bread.
Record of Shorthorn Prize Winners, has many photos of bulls from the Whitehall Sultan era.
https://archive.org/stream/recordofshorthor01cowarich#page/6/mode/2up
 

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librarian

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I thought I would post all these guys together.
 

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librarian

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And the rest.
And concerning nothing new under the sun, I cannot resist putting up one of one of Robert Bruce's observations about Amos Cruickshank, from 50 Years Among Shorthorns, since we are reading from that book. Just having fun XBAR, no offense meant.
Page 172 FIFTY YEARS AMONG SHORTHORNS.
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc2.ark:/13960/t5z60d26p;view=2up;seq=226;skin=mobile
Well do I remember going through the cattle at Sittyton with a gentleman who had some reputation, and certainly considered himself a judge. His criticisms were free and frequent, and chiefly unfavorable. I shall never forget the patience of Mr. Cruickshank, or his quiet manner. He neither dissented nor attempted any defence of his cattle. Old Cumberland (the principal stock bull) got it badly, and Mr. Cruickshank listened apparently unmoved, but knowing him as I did, I could discern a certain expression of amusement in his face ; and once or twice when he was directly appealed to there was a touch or grain of sarcasm in his replies which the stranger did not appear to observe."
 

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r.n.reed

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For the record those 3 bulls are all King Collynie Jr. sons bred at Hultines.
 

librarian

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I was revisting this thread trying to, yet again, get a grasp on what the Marshall is in a Sultan Marshall cross. I have forgotten. Maybe someone could post a pedigree I can look at to better understand.  I see this thread started just as I was leaving to move to Nebraska. Seems like a thousand years ago and have been banged around quite a bit since then, but still fascinated by Shorthorns. Thought you guys might enjoy this picture and the article it came from. http://www.hultine.com/lazy-ld
 

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