Potential Club Calf Semen Quality ...

PWolfe · Apr 28, 2011

With the potential of asking a rather rhetorical question, I will proceed by posing this conundrum to anyone who wants to answer with an intelligent response: With which club calf bull have people experienced the most success pertaining to ferilized eggs when performing high quality flushes? I do realize there are a multitude of factors when performing flushes; however, all things even, which bull(s) have people used that CONSISTENTLY produce solid flushes?

We recently flushed our Strictly Business x Full Flush donor to Monopoly; this flush yielded a decent amount ... of course, more would have been nice, but I realize I should not be too greedy.

We are looking to flush her one more time terminally; once this has occurred, she will be bred to our new bull, Rumor Mill.

Thank you,

Pat Wolfe
Ohio

frostback · Apr 28, 2011

One question, you said a decent flush but wanted more. Did you get eggs that were not feritilized or not many total?

PWolfe · Apr 28, 2011

Good question, Frostback ... Yes, there were eggs not fertilized; our embryologist stated that the donor cow was possibly overstimulated. When the flushing process was completed, we froze five eggs.

frostback · Apr 28, 2011

Before our last flush we bit the bullet and had our embryologist thaw a unit we were going to use and checked motility. $100 is cheap when you concider the whole cost of flushing one. Do not recommend that on something like Meyer but the clubby stuff. You may just buy a extra unit and do that next time. We also did it with some we were buying, turned out excellent quality. If she overstimed then you may not put all the blame on the semen.

PWolfe · Apr 28, 2011

I did not intend to put blame on quality of semen; I hope it did not sound that way. I was simply looking for some feedback on which clubby sires have consistently produced high flush quality semen.

In the past, we have had our embryologist thaw a unit to check motility; I believe I will have him do this again with the next scheduled flush.

Thank you for your insight and suggestion; I do appreciate it.

frostback · Apr 28, 2011

I know you were not blaming the semen but with clubby stuff I think it is always in the back of our minds if the quality is there. These bulls are not bred for fertility. Also just because someone has had success with a bull does not mean the next "batch" will be the same. Just way too many variables in each flush. Good luck. By the way Strictly Business and Carnac make a great mix. I did that with my SB cow and got 10 grade 1s. Will be implanting some this spring.

DSI · Apr 28, 2011

A majority of the clubby flushes we have been doing have been to monopoly. Results have been consistently good as far as semen quality is concerned. The other clubby bull we have been using quite a bit that has been very fertile is Walks Alone.

Cowboy · Apr 28, 2011

A year or so ago, we used some of the earlier collected semen on Monopoly, and had what I'd call average results -- got some unfertile eggs, and looking at that semen (early collections) I Had called it about 50-55 % mobile.

Last fall, I was sent some semen directly from Lautners, collected last fall, and since then, I Have not gotten a single unfertile egg from any donor done. This batch was collected on 9-10-10 -- and it is GREAT stuff. WE do have about a dozen units here for customer use if needed when donors arrive.

Timing , of course, is something I adhere to more stricly then when I eat dinner even. Besides having good quiality -- timing is EVERYTHING in the donor work up process. I am a nut case when it comes to breeding these donors, many many times I am out there well after midnight -- I only breed one time, but it has to be the RIGHT time. 2 units and walk away -- done deal. Have used a single unit as well split between both horns, and gotten the same result -- so it is good stuff.

Wishing every one good luck this year -- seem to me every thing is slower this year, we get busy later every year it seems, so far has been rather slow!

See ya -- Terry

dfm · Apr 28, 2011

Cowboy, I believe you have stated before but I do not remember, at what period of the standing heat do you breed donor's? My embryologist calls for the standard 1 straw at standing heat, 2 - 12 hours later and 1 - 12 hours after second breeding.

buck33 · Apr 28, 2011

One other thing to keep in mind on semen quality is that it goes beyond the flush and fertilization. Getting the cows pregnant or the growth and development of the embryo is also related to the quality of the semen. Kind of a misconception, many think that the semen has done it's job after the embryos have been fertilized and flushed from the cow.
Simmental cattle have become very popular for many reasons, but one is fertility. I purchased embryos one time from a flush using sexed semen on a Simme bull where the Simme donor flushed 67 #1 embryos!

Cowboy · Apr 29, 2011

DFM -- I hate to make you cring here, but I breed ONE time, with 2 units, one into each horn -- not the cervix, but into the horn a little ways -- at LEAST 6 hours, many times a few more than that - after all activity is done. She not only does not stand any more, but she is not even close to being interested in anything besides sleeping!

Your listed method is actually breeding her the THIRD time before I breed her the FIRST time. A few cows will tell me they are ready a few hours sooner, but the vast majority are well past 20 hours from first stand -- many closer to 24 hours from first stand -- before I ever breed them.

Time line - most cows -- not just donors - will show signs of early heat for a few hours, then actively stand for 12-15 hours, and show limited post heat signs for a few more hours. This is usually already about 20 hours or so into it. They ovulate (Average timing) no sooner than 30 hours form the start of it all -- so by breeding at -0- stand - the semen will be long dead before it ever see's an egg. I try to never breed sooner than to have the semen in there more than 4-5 hours before she releases her eggs. It also takes about 3 hours before the semen is capable of fertilization due to washing off of the cryo-protectants. The closer you can match that majic time line the better without going past it! Whatever the reason, it flat works well, and I ain't about to change it! hehehehe

Best of luck to all !!

Terry

hntwhitetail · May 3, 2011

Cowboy said:
DFM -- I hate to make you cring here, but I breed ONE time, with 2 units, one into each horn -- not the cervix, but into the horn a little ways -- at LEAST 6 hours, many times a few more than that - after all activity is done. She not only does not stand any more, but she is not even close to being interested in anything besides sleeping!

Your listed method is actually breeding her the THIRD time before I breed her the FIRST time. A few cows will tell me they are ready a few hours sooner, but the vast majority are well past 20 hours from first stand -- many closer to 24 hours from first stand -- before I ever breed them.

Time line - most cows -- not just donors - will show signs of early heat for a few hours, then actively stand for 12-15 hours, and show limited post heat signs for a few more hours. This is usually already about 20 hours or so into it. They ovulate (Average timing) no sooner than 30 hours form the start of it all -- so by breeding at -0- stand - the semen will be long dead before it ever see's an egg. I try to never breed sooner than to have the semen in there more than 4-5 hours before she releases her eggs. It also takes about 3 hours before the semen is capable of fertilization due to washing off of the cryo-protectants. The closer you can match that majic time line the better without going past it! Whatever the reason, it flat works well, and I ain't about to change it! hehehehe

Best of luck to all !!

Terry

Thanks for the great info.

Potential Club Calf Semen Quality ...

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