Potential genetic defect in Shorthorn cattle

The bull that was th and in the pen of 5 in Denver was tested after the pen was entered what 3 years ago. Instead of cancelling out we kept the pen together. I have spent almost 7,000$ testing cattle for genetic defects over the years......I may have one old cow that is a th carrier in the herd. All females are tested or their parents have been tested......all bull prospects are tested. The three the old lady took to the state fair were ds,th and pha free. I would challenge you to put a pen of 5 together to go to Denver. Or win a gain contest in a shorthorn feedout contest. We have done both. You may have a point about the Red Angus-Shorthorn composites we are raising. The first cross is a x-bred but we have calves out there in the lot that are three generation composites......alot of 3-4 blood brothers. I have never tried to sell thc bull that was misrepresented........I would like to thank you for keeping this thread alive and for joining in the genetic defect discussions.......but you do come across as a bitter little man sometimes. Thanks for your input......God loves you......and I wish you well in future discussion board participations.

^ now that's funny. One THC bull unknowingly taken to Denver is a far cry from being a hypocrite does it?

None of us can rewrite our own history. I guess at the very least, if there was a 12 step program for hypocrites, aj would be somewhere between steps 5 and 12.
I like his breeding philosophy.
Instead of cross posting his crimes all the time, maybe we could just have dedicated thread: Dastardly Deeds of aj.

Now he wants understanding on his terms yet is never willing to offer a scintilla of understanding to others.

Now that's funny.

The cross posting is in response to aj's continual bashing, but he somehow expects sympathy for his escapades.

I say bs.

It's really simple, aj, stop bashing.

7000 testing for genetics defects is about 100 head.

2nd place in a 2 deep class is excellent.

Don't remember the gain class. Might be legitimate.

The number of transfers seems far less than the number than tested for defects.

Again, it's really simple. Stop bashing and everything will be fine.

Let the gang bang get started......tag team.....you need to round up about 10 posters.....if you are gonna do it right. Last i knew I have been posting on here since 2006.......longer than anybody......I would suggest that 10 years from now i may still be on here and the experts that I piss off will be selling used cars.......something to think about. I do enjoy knabe's in theory posts......he has never been a hands on cattleman and he brings a different aspect to the discussions.

Had a guy tell me that knabes posts resembles the BTK killers notes......kind of a pattern......they caught BTK......I think.......

Oh I don't know AJ. Your posts sometimes piss me off, sometimes they're pretty alright. We've had cattle since about 1910, registered Shorthorns since 1930 or so, so I might still be around. Unless I move to Herefords.

aj said:

Had a guy tell me that knabes posts resembles the BTK killers notes......kind of a pattern......they caught BTK......I think.......

Click to expand...

Seriously aj, you are the mass murderer (btk reference)


You are the one badmouthing cattle all the time, disappearing for a while and then dropping the shorthorn bashing bombs and think we should take you seriously.


Pointing that out and then pointing out that you did what you railed about is not mass murder.


Seriously, your logic of calling me a mass murderer and then saying you enjoy my posts is incongruent.


I have lost all respect for you.


You transfer no cattle, you don't breed cattle, you don't do anything.


You think somehow calling me a hands off cattleman is somehow offensive.


For a hands on cattleman, you have to be the worst in the nation, doing everything wrong.


Pathetic.


You give vague references you are a Christian. Your Christian skills equate with your cattleman skills. Pathetic.


You are not a Christian or a cattleman. Your posts and lack of transfers prove it.


Man up and ask for forgiveness and make something.

AJ and Knabe so you have personality conflicts, grow up and put the past behind you.  If can not agree then agree to disagree.  You both have comments of value, but it seems you are constantly bickering and acting like two grade school prima donna's toward one another.  I think you all need to agree to disagree and put the past behind you, which is easier said than done.
 
"What have you accomplished by besting a fool in an argument?", is a question I was often asked as a kid.

Lastly, the bickering invokes negativity about both your breeding programs as well as the shorthorn breed.  "A house divided can not stand."

good point.

Tried to do some quick searches on breed associations being sued. did run across topclassactions.com that list's class action law suits. In theory......if shorthorn breeders did a class action lawsuit against the American Shorthorn assc for say the defamement of thc cattle.....how would the money be split up......by confirmed tested carrier or so much money per breeder? I'm a little surprised that the Angus Assc hasn't been sued for the defameing of genetic defect carriers.....but I imagine they got a big law firm backing them up. The Shorthorn breed might be a different deal.

aj expanding his customer base.

I know of two instances where breed associated entities were sued, and lost.  No names, but in both cases the association related folks were correct in what they did, but the court ruled they did not have "adequate proof" at the time they took their actions.  One case involved juniors and the kids had to come up with a lot of money.

The ASA was given legal counsel and apparently the advice was not to take action to restrict the membership from propagating known defect carriers. Perhaps the ASA attorney felt the risk of losing was too great or, the costs associated with defending the ASA would be prohibitive regardless of the outcome?? If you want more details on this then you would need to call the CEO of the ASA.

Some may not like it, but if that is the case, I believe the attorney's advice is correct.  Maybe Obama can become the king and issue executive orders.  If he brings along his own attorney general, then we know there will be no legal ramifications.

Maybe its time for a change. The Herford assn. was seperate from the Polled assn. for years.........and they eventually changed and joined. Maybe there needs to be a club calf assc. which registers th and pha cattle. Each breed would be seperate in the same assc. This way the Herfords,Charolais, and every breed could have a branch off to th cattle and would be able to compete with the big boys. The Herfords could legally incorporate the thc condition and the looks that it brings as well as any breed. You would have a seperation of the genetically defective cattle this way.

Mountains out of molehills.  I would suggest going to Louisville, checking out the show catalog, and see just how many cattle are sired by THC bulls.  Maybe a Damn Proud, maybe a Cloud 9.  Not very many.  You have to go back quite a few years to find a THC champion female, don't know if there has ever been a THC bull that won the show.  The only reason THC shows up in the pedigrees of any of them is that Improver was so widely used before anybody had even heard of TH.  So many of his descendants, I might point out that he is only one animal out of many that make up the total ancestry, that are not THC will be very competitive.  Since the odds are very slim that a THC animal will win the show, does that mean the correlation between THC and "the look" might not be as great as some of you seem to think?  The only place THC and/or PHAC is truly commonplace is the club calf arena.  The last time I checked, they had no registry.

Time for a change AJ.

Drop the issue. Take your own advice which we all know you are incapable of.

Run for office.

Stop being a phallus.

You are the one mass murdering your own program.

Get a clue and stop patting yourself on the back for being on this site for so long as if that gives you any credibility or offset points for being a jerk.

Take your own advice and just drop it.

Are you suggesting AJ that a separate registry should be created for all carriers? And a show of their very own also? Interesting concept but not sure if it is realistic?
I don't how many carriers win or don't win in the show ring but the apparent passion for preserving these genetic defect genes would indicate one of two things. One, there is at least a belief that these genes provide a very real competitive advantage or two, breeders are looking for ways to explain or justify the propagation of these genes because their associations have no plan to manage the problem.

I think a steer has to be a thc to win.......at least 90% of the time. Other wise the thc is not an advantage. But the steer thing demands it and I assume like alot of Damn Proud semen probably goes to the steer type programs......I don't know.