Shorthorn Sired- Galloway influenced calves

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librarian

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This is the red bull calf I was so worried about not growing, but he got over whatever was slowing him down and is doing good now. My apologies to Kelburne Great Event about thinking he was a dwarf. The red one is 3/4 Shorthorn, 1/8 Galloway, 1/8 Black Angus.
The white heifer is 3/4 Shorthorn,1/4 Galloway.
Sorry about the poor picture quality.


 

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librarian

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Just some better pictures.
 

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librarian

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And Galloway sired from Shorthorn first calf heifer. I know this is a broken record, but most Galloways really are good for heifer bulls.
The last two are reciprocal crosses...  (Galloway and Shorthorn) Really hard to tell apart at this stage...
 

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mark tenenbaum

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Id love to breed a couple of them for Blue Roans-2nd calf use Young Money, or his son Renegade Blue (pictured) or for FIRST CALF one of several part Shorthorn i-80 sons like Excel 80,or Safe and Sound O0
 

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librarian

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I have these fleshy blue roans (just grass.. No grain ever) that are making those short headed calves. For the show thing that Renegade Blue looks like he would be a good fit.
This white heifer is half Galloway out of that blue cow.
The other was 3/4 Shorthorn out of a Galloway/Shorthorn cross. (Galloway sire on  Shorthorn cow)
I'm real curious about if the crossing order makes a difference in the maternal traits.
 

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librarian

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And a nice Galloway first calf heifer and her Shorthorn sired bull calf born in May
 

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RyanChandler

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I really like those white calves librarian.  They ought to make you some good momma cows. Go back over him with something like a deep wide low set Charolais bull like you were talking about. If you weren't so far I'd let you use my Led Weight bull.  He would add a dimension to those calves you likely haven't seen yet--  without adding the extreme volatility you'd experience with the blue mongrel above. 
 

mark tenenbaum

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Young Money HAS NO JAZZ AT ALL-Hes eye Candy on a Trump-Double Vision-x Studers (NOT CATES)Queen cow.(Queens Trump) The Bull pictured is a young Money-x Majors MoneymanXMr Dunk -3/4 Simmintal female. Very good maternal cow-her pedigree is listed on competitive edge genetics-from 2014 if you google "renegade blues bull". And both him and his sire are WAY bigger than the Jazz Cattle, probably both over a ton.. In the past I called Raymond Gonnet about Young Money-he was very helpfull-and said that "i"m 6 foot !-and he comes up pretty good on me.Semen on Young Money-2 out of 3:SEK-Top Sires, Cattle Visions, Renegade Blues-Competitive Edge Genetics O0
 

mark tenenbaum

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How many blue mongrels have you been involved with?-In my experience they ARE DAMN GOOD CATTLE and the only thing remotely close to a Shorthorn any commercial guy will buy-and ive seen them break the bank in the worst environment ive ever seen for a shorthorn -VA.-One minute everybody is oohing and ahhing over A and Ts crossbreds-which they are good calves-Next minute-bashing a blue roan. Young Money has sired alot of good calves out of alot of different types and breeds-And by pedigree alone-Id put the dam of the pictured bull up against just about any maternal deal you want to come up with.There are probably more documented calves just out of Majors Money man than out of a lot of different breeds of bulls-and hes the CE leader of that breed. In fact-heres the cows pedigree-so why dont you have a look and give me your diagnosis  http://competitiveedgebulls.com/2014/03/12/renegade-blues/  O0
 

RyanChandler

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I haven't been involved with any blue mongrels but with the extreme level of variation in his pedigree, it would be foolish to expect anything other than a similar level of variation in his offspring. I'm not bashing the bull-- I just think that because of his jumbled genotype, he would have been better suited as a feedlot steer than as a breeding piece.

And I don't know anything about his papered commercial dam- but I'd imagine it'd take all the breed leading calving ease she could bring forth to even come close to offsetting the top side of blue's pedigree.
 

librarian

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I don't want to make Mark mad because his RB suggestion made sense from the point of view of RB being a Young Money Son and Young Money being an Eye Candy Son and the Galloway Influence in Eye Candy being something that could be recovered with GallowayX mating. That E3, who I think is a lot smarter than me, and I both thought we saw some JPJ in there supports my theory that there is a Galloway in the closet of most of the old time high marbling Shorthorn lines.
I would never use RB  for real because of something I read once, "first pick a breed and then pick a breeder". I don't think crossbreeding animals from distinct programs makes a mongrel in the same way crossing crossed up cattle and keeping the one good one does.
... Yet it does seem that some of these show type "mongrels" breed true to their type if used on certain cows. I guess all we can assume is that somewhere in there was a prepotent element that will seek that same element in another mongrel.
But does it matter on show cattle? As someone said, they are just bred to look pretty and die, so it doesn't make sense to expect consistency. They are like shooting stars.
Yes, XBAR, your bull is what I'm looking for in Char. I would of put him on all my cows and then use the best mongrel son back on the cows and keep the heifers out of that group. Choosing the best son seems less subjective than trying to predict which combination will nick. If I'm only looking for 25% Char, then wouldn't using a cross from my own cows work?
 

mark tenenbaum

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I can only go by what ive seen-there are a couple of earlier posts on here Re calves and BWs on Young Money and 1 on Renegade blue: and blog pictures.Although niether has been touted as calving rase-the calves have run in the 80s. Its clear from sheer numbers that Young Money has been a pretty consistant sire-the calves bear a striking resemblance to him-Renegade Blues being a prime example. Renengade blue also has alot of purebred (according to allowable percentages by the respective associations)cattle in his back ground:and regardless if you like simintals, the popular line of shorthorns, or the maines, they are cattle which have been used alot:and probably as a group in way more scenarios than a strictly breed orientation. I would venture to say that we are talking about crossbreds of several breeds in all cases here-weather they be 3 way Shorthorn, Galloway, and Angus-Or-1/8 clubby (going back to Shorthorn Galloway and Chi) X1/2 Simm and 3/8 Maine with Angus back there to have made Heetseeker Black-and Renergade 'Blue"..As for commercially oriented Shorthorns and BWs-the most influential non-native influenced bull behind the lauer-loving-jungels cattle- is HS Instant Enticer-and they are wound up line bred to him. Enticer himself was a STONE COW KILLER-so I guess it depends upon the individuals that come out of bad breeding that propogate otherwise.I allways thought-that wether your cattle are pure or not-if they add desired characteristcs and improve what you are breeding to-then they are just good cattle. At least thats how it works on the majority of cattle which are commercial-And are mainly crossbreds.Everybody has different goals-my hats off to the giys who can take a commercial cow-breed it to an ai bull-go out and stand up at shows with a hiefer calf-and turn her into a good cow. So i"ll take a blue out of one of those white crosses-and you take a charolais cross-if they are hiefers-Ill take the blue every time-especially when it comes to handling them.O0
 

librarian

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Actually, Mark, I think this is the cow you would want the RB calf out of. Substitute RB got the Shorthorn top cross. She is just a White Galloway sired cow out of a deep bodied commercial Angus cow. The problem with White Park for pattern it's that it's so dominant you can't really blend colors with it.
I made this post really just to show what a Galloway cross could set you up with it a person did want to breed for the ring. So you saw what I was getting at.
 

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mark tenenbaum

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For changing the color pattern:If you had to choose between Renegade or his sire Young Money-With Young Money would you go closer to the Light Roan Shorthorn x solid Black Gallowayx Short cross-and thus a "stronger color changer "?(roan and its offshoots) Or do you think that Renegade who has alot more black in the background would change the color-Id be looking for a blue roan-Obviously its more guestimate-gutt feeling  than theory.My guess is that you'd actually have less chance with Renegade, but I like either of them on that cow. O0
 

oakview

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If old Improver is indeed part Galloway, then you've already got Galloway influence in far more cattle than most people think.  This would include all Heat Seeker descendants.  That Queen's Trump cow has an interesting pedigree.  I always liked Trump on Maine cross females.  I've got some Pretender embryos out of the original MTS Red Queen Rodeo Drive cow.  Dale says full sibs are among his best females. 
 

mark tenenbaum

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Hey Oakview-ever seen any of the (other?) Studer Spotted Queens-Mitch on here had one I saw a few years ago at B-goods sale. I think the spotted queen cow was GR Exclusive on a Debower fullblood maine cow-And may have been the Dam of Studers Winter Puff-JMO-The best calf ever sired by RPS Grandslam. I had plans one day to use him on Dorothy O0 O0
 

oakview

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I've seen plenty of the Queens over the years.  I haven't quite figured out the ASA's new website, so I can't look up the pedigrees for sure, but I think Red Queen 99th was sired by Rodeo Drive out of Spotty Queen, an Exclusive out of a Maine female from DeBouwers (sp?).  I remember seeing a Maine heifer or two at Dale's just after he bought them when he still lived by Wesley many years ago and I believe one of them was the foundation of the Studer's Queen line.  I'm not so sure that Exclusive wasn't the best bull Merle Welch ever bred. 
 
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