Quantcast Proof the show ring is still screwing things up.

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Author Topic: Proof the show ring is still screwing things up.  (Read 1156 times)

Offline coyote

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Offline E6 Durhams

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Re: Proof the show ring is still screwing things up.
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2019, 06:53:54 PM »
They all have Belgian Blue asses. Fascinating how different sections of the world prefer a different type. I wont be ordering any embryos from the UK anytime soon. Not a knock on them just not what I prefer. I cant get over dat ass on those cattle 😳
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 06:54:21 PM by E6 Durhams »
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Offline Hopster1000

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Re: Proof the show ring is still screwing things up.
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2019, 02:25:24 AM »
It's actually not the show ring that is driving this shape, it is the abattoirs. All the cattle slaughtered in the UK are graded on carcass confirmation. Obviously not all beef bred cattle have as much muscle, but farmers will buy Limousin, Charolais and Blue bulls based on their muscle. A lot of these bulls have 2 copies of the myostatin mutation and its very common for farmers to have a cow herd of continental based cows. It would not be uncommon for beef finishers to have a full house of commercial cattle like this ready for slaughter. Also with the increasing influx of dairy bred animals finished for beef, they will never be able to reach anywhere near the top grades.
Some people are calling for a change in the grading system to better reflect the quality of beef, but there are no signs of this happening yet.

Online mark tenenbaum

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Re: Proof the show ring is still screwing things up.
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2019, 07:19:49 AM »
I cant see how they couls calve made like that-or at least without being ready for a c section O0

Offline justintime

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Re: Proof the show ring is still screwing things up.
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2019, 08:04:30 AM »
It's actually not the show ring that is driving this shape, it is the abattoirs. All the cattle slaughtered in the UK are graded on carcass confirmation. Obviously not all beef bred cattle have as much muscle, but farmers will buy Limousin, Charolais and Blue bulls based on their muscle. A lot of these bulls have 2 copies of the myostatin mutation and its very common for farmers to have a cow herd of continental based cows. It would not be uncommon for beef finishers to have a full house of commercial cattle like this ready for slaughter. Also with the increasing influx of dairy bred animals finished for beef, they will never be able to reach anywhere near the top grades.
Some people are calling for a change in the grading system to better reflect the quality of beef, but there are no signs of this happening yet.


I think Hopster is closer to the truth, that it is the packers that are leading this campaign for cattle like this. I don't think any producer in North America would want to raise cattle like this, and I see some breeds in the UK starting to make some regulations regarding cattle that carry the myostatin strains. The British Shorthorn society will no longer accept animals that were produced from sires that carry two strains of myostatin. I really wonder how many people realize how many cattle here in North America carry at least 1 strain of myostatin. On the other hand, I was told a few days ago, that a packing plant in the Western US is now offering a premium of about $180 per head if they carry two myostatin strains in their genetic make up. I want to find out more about this, and make sure it is even true. Has anyone else heard anything about this? I was told that this packer believes that the Myostatin strains are closely linked to tenderness and this is why the are wanting cattle that carry them. I guess the packer doesn't have to raise these critters so they really don't care that much.
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Offline CAB

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Re: Proof the show ring is still screwing things up.
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2019, 08:31:33 AM »
If you understand cutability verses grade it makes sense that a packer would pay a good bonus for this type of carcass. Cutability makes packers way, way more money than higher grading cattle. Sometime put your pencil to the issue for fun it makes it simple to understand.

Offline knabe

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Re: Proof the show ring is still screwing things up.
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2019, 08:40:18 AM »
there supposedly is a 1 year waiting list for straight piedmontese bulls.


they are homozygous for their unique form of myostatin and don't seem so extreme in their appearance.


when bred to cattle with no allele for myostatin, they have an intermediate effect on tenderness that is easily noticeable to the palate. they are lean, but tender. 


there is a grocery chain out here that only sell pied's in their meat case for all cuts of beef.


http://www.greatplainsbeef.com/Breed.htm

We decided on Piedmontese so that we could deliver all of these health benefits while still producing a product that is consistently tender."
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 08:41:00 AM by knabe »

Online Gargan

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Re: Proof the show ring is still screwing things up.
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2019, 08:55:27 AM »
Wonder how a waygu x pied cross would fly?
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Offline knabe

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Re: Proof the show ring is still screwing things up.
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2019, 09:21:10 AM »
Wonder how a waygu x pied cross would fly?

Yup. There are a couple people being even more creative than that. ;)

Offline idalee

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Re: Proof the show ring is still screwing things up.
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2019, 10:01:55 AM »
I had a client who bred his Holstein cows to calving ease charolais bulls who looked very much like those cattle pictured from the UK.   Just my taste and that is all this comment is worth!   But I don't want and will never  breed cattle that look like pigs. 

Offline CAB

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Re: Proof the show ring is still screwing things up.
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2019, 10:37:28 AM »
A new restaurant opened up in our hometown about a year ago and serves nothing but Pied. meat. Their beef items are very, very good. the name of the restaurant is The Primrose in Corning, Iowa for any of you that are close enough for it to be feasible for a night out.

Offline oakview

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Re: Proof the show ring is still screwing things up.
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2019, 10:43:42 AM »
I would say the judges are more to blame than the show itself although you could argue that if there were no shows, there would be no judges.  People like to win and they're going to breed and show what they think will have the best chance to win.  The judges set the standard and we respond to it.  If Trump based cattle didn't consistently win the shows, not as many people would have them.  That goes back through history and includes Bapton Constructor, Leader 21, Columbus, G-9, Dividend, pick one.  In my 50+ years of showing at the Iowa State Fair I've led 3 frames to probably 10 frames and everything in between and each one was "right."  No disrespect, but it seems most of the trend setting judges are college folks with little or no practical experience raising their own cattle.  If myostatin has a positive influence on tenderness, Limousin must not have any.   

Offline Shorthorn-Fed

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Re: Proof the show ring is still screwing things up.
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2019, 01:29:12 PM »
  No disrespect, but it seems most of the trend setting judges are college folks with little or no practical experience raising their own cattle. 
I think you nailed that one Oakview. Just look at the trendy new terms you hear pop up when they want to invent a new reason!


Russ
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 02:24:52 PM by Shorthorn-Fed »
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Offline Hopster1000

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Re: Proof the show ring is still screwing things up.
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2019, 01:44:01 PM »
I would say the judges are more to blame than the show itself although you could argue that if there were no shows, there would be no judges.  People like to win and they're going to breed and show what they think will have the best chance to win.  The judges set the standard and we respond to it.  If Trump based cattle didn't consistently win the shows, not as many people would have them.  That goes back through history and includes Bapton Constructor, Leader 21, Columbus, G-9, Dividend, pick one.  In my 50+ years of showing at the Iowa State Fair I've led 3 frames to probably 10 frames and everything in between and each one was "right."  No disrespect, but it seems most of the trend setting judges are college folks with little or no practical experience raising their own cattle.  If myostatin has a positive influence on tenderness, Limousin must not have any.   

In the UK, shows like at the top could be a fat stock show or commercial class. In a show like this the judge could even be an abattoir representative. Don't think there would be young college grads that would be readily accepted as judges. Would be very unusual in the UK for the show circuit to drive the new ideas or fads. Its the beef market that drives the direction of the cattle shown. Basically the show cattle and commercial cattle are one and the same. The show people just spend more money and time to get their cattle as well finished and polished as possible. There would be no lines of cattle similar to Trump etc in North America that are show cattle.
The Lim breed quite often have 2 copies of the myostatin mutation (homogeneous) but their variation of the gene is usually different to that found in other breeds. Likewise for all breeds. Obviously some myostatin mutations provide more tenderness than others. Some reduce milk some don't, some increase calf size, some don't.

Offline knabe

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Re: Proof the show ring is still screwing things up.
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2019, 06:30:25 PM »
Only Piedmontese myostatin allele has intermediate tenderness in a het state.

The stop codon is much closer to the end of the wild type stop compared to all other breeds and therefore the protein acts much different in the hey state compared to the het state in all other breeds

 

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