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Offline KSUwildcat2009

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Re: Proposed Child Labor Laws
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2012, 05:01:09 PM »
So I must admit, I don't watch the news.  Not because I don't care, but the local news rarely has anything worthwhile, the major cable channels annoy me because on topics like such or BSE for example they are uniformed and I figure social media will tell me the important things.  Has there been progress/new forms of the DOL proposal?  And if yes, is it posted online somewhere?

Offline Jeff_Schroeder

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Re: Proposed Child Labor Laws
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2012, 05:12:23 PM »

Offline sackshowcattle

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Re: Proposed Child Labor Laws
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2012, 06:39:22 PM »
It actually wouldn't be that hard to get big names backing you. you just have to pick the right cities, states and counties to contact. Get a hold of louisville, denver, houston, kansas city, and any other city with a national show and tell them and the state they are in what they are going to loose. counties with big fairs with concerts and rodeos let them know. Part of the issue od nwss moving is denver doesn't want to lose its 15 million projected incom for the month of january. Make them see how with not being handle larger animals no more jids learning to ride so they will lose rodeo and the stock shows. let cheyenne se they might lose fronteir days. show them the tax lost from hotels not being booked and restaurants that go broke cause a big part of their profit is from that month filled booths. the companies that wont have sales at booths at the shows. Show them the boost it gives to airlines and car rentals for big wigs and judges and everything else to fly in and drive around. Finally and most importantly show the loss to the kids. Show the way kids in 4-h and ffa excel later in life. Show the scholarships and money earned from livestock shows and these orginizations. How giving reasons in judging helps with public speaking and more professional welders and mechanics have come from ag class and farm kids then kids in welding and auto in high school. Show how livestock projects teach them about finance and record keeping.

Offline knabe

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Re: Proposed Child Labor Laws
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2012, 08:40:04 PM »
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_FARM_LABOR?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-04-26-19-44-56

they'll float it again.  people would rather eat soylent green if the news media said it was good.
"The generation that told us to question authority, has now become the Authority we cannot question!"

Offline ZNT

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Re: Proposed Child Labor Laws
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2012, 08:10:52 AM »
Here is some clarification on the proposed child labor rules.

Information from:
http://thegraph.com/2012/04/us-labor-department-is-not-banning-children-from-doing-farm-chores

(Updated to add the US Labor Dept.s Five Facts about the Proposed Child Labor in Agriculture Rule section)

The conservative social web has been freaking out this morning over a story from the Daily Caller who reported:

Rural kids, parents angry about Labor Dept. rule banning farm chores

A proposal from the Obama administration to prevent children from doing farm chores has drawn plenty of criticism from rural-district members of Congress. But now its attracting barbs from farm kids themselves.

The Department of Labor is poised to put the finishing touches on a rule that would apply child-labor laws to children working on family farms, prohibiting them from performing a list of jobs on their own families land.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/25/rural-kids-parents-angry-about-labor-dept-rule-banning-farm-chores/
Twitchy even highlighted some of the knee-jerk reactionaries (Im laughing with some of you) who took to Twitter to create the #ObamaFarmChores hashtag to mock the supposed impending doom of farm chores for boys and girls across America. Not that the kids would mind. Amiright?!

This Internet urban (or rural, in this case) myth is much ado about nothing. In the very US Labor Department proposal that the Daily Caller cited, the language is clear about this. From the 2nd paragraph of the US Labor Department proposal (my emphasis in bold):

The department is proposing updates based on the enforcement experiences of its Wage and Hour Division, recommendations made by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, and a commitment to bring parity between the rules for young workers employed in agricultural jobs and the more stringent rules that apply to those employed in nonagricultural workplaces. The proposed regulations would not apply to children working on farms owned by their parents.
Also, getting everyone in a tizzy is the rumor that 4-H would be eliminated under this proposal. Not true. From the US Labor Department site:

Five Facts about the Proposed Child Labor in Agriculture Rule
Fact # 1: The proposed Child Labor in Agriculture rule will not prohibit all people under the age of 18 from working on a farm.

The proposed rule would not change any of the Fair Labor Standards Acts minimum age standards for agricultural employment. Under the FLSA, the legal age to be employed on a farm without restrictions is 16. The FLSA also allows children between the ages of 12 and 15 years, under certain conditions, to be employed outside of school hours to perform nonhazardous jobs on farms. Children under the age of 12 may be employed with parental permission on very small farms to perform nonhazardous jobs outside of school hours.

Young people can be employed to perform many jobs on the farm and this would be true even if the proposed rule were adopted as written. The proposed rule would, however, prohibit the employment of workers under the age of 18 in nonagricultural occupations in the farm-product raw materials wholesale trade industries. Prohibited establishments would include country grain elevators, grain elevators, grain bins, silos, feed lots, feed yards, stockyard, livestock exchanges, and livestock auctions not on a farm or used solely by a single farmer. What these locations have in common is that many workers, including children, have suffered occupational deaths or serious injuries working in these facilities over the last few years.

Fact # 2: The proposed rule would not eliminate the parental exemption for owners/operators of a family farm.

The parental exemption for the owner or operator of a farm is statutory and cannot be eliminated through the regulatory process. A child of any age may perform any job, even hazardous work, at any age at any time on a farm owned by his or her parent. A child of any age whose parent operates a farm may also perform any task, even hazardous jobs, on that farm but only outside of school hours. So for children working on farms that are registered as LLCs, but operated solely by their parents, the parental exemption would still apply.

Fact # 3: This proposed regulation will not eliminate 4-H and FFA programs.

The Department of Labor fully supports the important contributions both 4-H and the FFA make toward developing our children. The proposed rule would in no way prohibit a child from raising or caring for an animal in a non-employment situation even if the animal were housed on a working farm as long as he or she is not hired or employed to work with the animal. In such a situation, the child is not acting as an employee and is not governed by the child labor regulations. And there is nothing in the proposed rule that would prevent a child from being employed to work with animals other than in those specific situations identified in the proposal as particularly hazardous.

Fact # 4: Under the proposed rule, children will still be able to help neighbors in need of help.

In order for the child labor provisions of the FLSA to apply, there must first be an employer/employee relationship. The lone act of helping a neighbor round up loose cattle who have broken out of their fencing, for example, generally would not establish an employer/employee relationship.

Fact # 5: Children will still be able to take animals to the county fair or to market.

A child who raises and cares for his or her animal for example, as part of a 4-H project is not being employed by anyone, and thus is outside the coverage of the FLSA. Even if the child needs to rent space from a farm, the animal is not part of the farms business and with regard to the care of the animal no employer/employee relationship exists, so the child labor provisions would not apply. Likewise, there would be no problem with taking the animal to the county fair or to market, since the child is doing this on his/her own behalf not on behalf of an employer. The proposed prohibitions would apply only if the child was an employee of the exchange or auction.
There are some portions of this US Labor proposal that do need some attention, but not the one being widely misreported.

The lesson here: trust, but verify. Better we knock this down before the left pick up on this and mock you for a couple days with their own hashtag. We federalists are here for you, conservatives. We have your back, but work on the knee-jerk reactionary response thing thats had a lot of you (especially the eunuchorns) under its spell lately. K?

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Offline MJCorlett

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Re: Proposed Child Labor Laws
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2012, 08:42:40 AM »
Thank you for posting this ZNT.  By reading only what you posted it seems that if the law were to be proposed again or pushed now, it would affect my family.  We are not owners, but managers.  So, again only reading what's posted, my kids couldn't set foot outside the yard to "do" anything (legally) because we are not a very small farm but a very large commercial outfit (in fact #1).  This kind of law would affect MANY ag families across the nation, if I am reading correctly.
I will have to read more to see if there were exemptions for employee children.
However, I did see a bit of news saying it was set aside for now?
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Offline oakview

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Re: Proposed Child Labor Laws
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2012, 09:59:40 AM »
I, too, heard that the proposal had been withdrawn yesterday.  My concern, maybe even fear, is that the government is involved in the first place.  Do we need another government agency?  Do we need more government control?  Why is it these people that sit in big city offices and have little or no concept of the real world continue to dream up ways to justify their jobs?  Maybe they could do some research and find out that more teens are injured or killed in gang violence in their city in one day than are hurt doing chores on a farm in a year.  Maybe they could fund a goverment study that shows teens are physically better off baling hay than sitting in front of their computer playing Grand Theft Auto.  Could we please have another government agency that protects the public interest just like the ones that spent nearly $1 million in Las Vegas or provided employment opportunities for hookers in Columbia?  Would someone please explain to me again why we need to pay more taxes instead of getting rid of even a little bit of government waste?

Offline iowabeef

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Re: Proposed Child Labor Laws
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2012, 10:28:26 AM »
I, too, heard that the proposal had been withdrawn yesterday.  My concern, maybe even fear, is that the government is involved in the first place.  Do we need another government agency?  Do we need more government control?  Why is it these people that sit in big city offices and have little or no concept of the real world continue to dream up ways to justify their jobs?  Maybe they could do some research and find out that more teens are injured or killed in gang violence in their city in one day than are hurt doing chores on a farm in a year.  Maybe they could fund a goverment study that shows teens are physically better off baling hay than sitting in front of their computer playing Grand Theft Auto.  Could we please have another government agency that protects the public interest just like the ones that spent nearly $1 million in Las Vegas or provided employment opportunities for hookers in Columbia?  Would someone please explain to me again why we need to pay more taxes instead of getting rid of even a little bit of government waste?
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline aj

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Re: Proposed Child Labor Laws
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2012, 10:37:23 AM »
I read a deal(I think it was a KLA mag) that said Obama's epa is working on taking ground water rights away from producers. I don't know what the legal description is for sure. Now if you own land you pretty much own water pumped out of the land. The push is to make it the governments water as I understood the article.
People can't believe we have such a big moon for such a small town.

Offline OLD WORLD SHORTIE

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Re: Proposed Child Labor Laws
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2012, 11:34:26 AM »

Best way to try and understand these people is to get in their heads.
America Hell yea! Coming to save the mother loving day!
I make people angry that's my fault. I'm a line stepper, im a habitual line stepper.

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: Proposed Child Labor Laws
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2012, 11:36:39 AM »
Thank you for posting this ZNT.  By reading only what you posted it seems that if the law were to be proposed again or pushed now, it would affect my family.  We are not owners, but managers.  So, again only reading what's posted, my kids couldn't set foot outside the yard to "do" anything (legally) because we are not a very small farm but a very large commercial outfit (in fact #1).  This kind of law would affect MANY ag families across the nation, if I am reading correctly.
I will have to read more to see if there were exemptions for employee children.

The proposed rule would not change any of the Fair Labor Standards Acts minimum age standards for agricultural employment. Under the FLSA, the legal age to be employed on a farm without restrictions is 16. The FLSA also allows children between the ages of 12 and 15 years, under certain conditions, to be employed outside of school hours to perform nonhazardous jobs on farms. Children under the age of 12 may be employed with parental permission on very small farms to perform nonhazardous jobs outside of school hours.





I've yet to read one thing about the proposed laws that I disagree with.  It wont be until your kid gets wrapped up in a PTO that you'll finally say , yeah "maybe our 12yr old shouldn't have been doing that."    

Offline breyfarm

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Re: Proposed Child Labor Laws
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2012, 12:55:02 PM »





I've yet to read one thing about the proposed laws that I disagree with.  It wont be until your kid gets wrapped up in a PTO that you'll finally say , yeah "maybe our 12yr old shouldn't have been doing that."    
[/quote]
there was a kid who was killed from a PTO and he was 23 around here. Also was a 56 year old man who forgot to shut a valve off an anydrous tank and started to take the hose off and got blasted in the face and burnt his face all up. We like to point the fingers at kids who are in these accidents and say they didnt know no better. When in fact I can remember my father and grandfather going over all the moving parts with me and told me what to stay away from and what precautions to take if I had to be near moving parts. Sh*t happens. Accidents occur on the farm and its up to the parents to decide whether or not their child should be or shouldnt be doing a certain chore, not the government. My arguement is some things they have proposed like kids under the age of 16 are not allowed to be in bins,silos, equipment without roll bars or cases, and around animals above 600 pounds. Thats nonsense.

Offline iowabeef

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Re: Proposed Child Labor Laws
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2012, 01:09:32 PM »
I AGREE COMPLETELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  If there was a hug rash of young farm kid accidents, it would be different. Accidents happen on farms, it is part of life.  I would like someone to compile some statistics but I would bet Aged Farmers have more accidents than the you....This really harkens to a bigger problem we have in this country.... GOVERNMENT JUMPING TO THE LEGISLATIVE ROUTE to "fix" things.   We have too much governemnt already. 

There is a freak accident where a tire comes off of a tractor....we should ban all tires on tractors.....
A wind storm knocks over a tree onto a child....we must cut down all trees....

GOVERNMENT PASSING LAWS IS NOT THE ANSWER!!!!!   Trust me...this silly change in regulations is not going to prevent PTO accidents. 



Offline iowabeef

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Re: Proposed Child Labor Laws
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2012, 01:13:25 PM »
Thank you for posting this ZNT.  By reading only what you posted it seems that if the law were to be proposed again or pushed now, it would affect my family.  We are not owners, but managers.  So, again only reading what's posted, my kids couldn't set foot outside the yard to "do" anything (legally) because we are not a very small farm but a very large commercial outfit (in fact #1).  This kind of law would affect MANY ag families across the nation, if I am reading correctly.
I will have to read more to see if there were exemptions for employee children.

The proposed rule would not change any of the Fair Labor Standards Acts minimum age standards for agricultural employment. Under the FLSA, the legal age to be employed on a farm without restrictions is 16. The FLSA also allows children between the ages of 12 and 15 years, under certain conditions, to be employed outside of school hours to perform nonhazardous jobs on farms. Children under the age of 12 may be employed with parental permission on very small farms to perform nonhazardous jobs outside of school hours.





I've yet to read one thing about the proposed laws that I disagree with.  It wont be until your kid gets wrapped up in a PTO that you'll finally say , yeah "maybe our 12yr old shouldn't have been doing that."    

This mentality that the govenment knows better what I and my family should and shouldn't be doing is silly.  I have a brain, I know my equipment, I love my family, I teach them safety, I have experience.....lawmakers sit in an office, few have run machinery, few have set foot on a farm... Maybe liberal idiots can't think for themselves but I am an educated adult and don't need the government to tell me what to do, what to eat, where to live, how to live.....

Offline ZNT

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Re: Proposed Child Labor Laws
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2012, 01:48:36 PM »
Thank you for posting this ZNT.  By reading only what you posted it seems that if the law were to be proposed again or pushed now, it would affect my family.  We are not owners, but managers.  So, again only reading what's posted, my kids couldn't set foot outside the yard to "do" anything (legally) because we are not a very small farm but a very large commercial outfit (in fact #1).  This kind of law would affect MANY ag families across the nation, if I am reading correctly.
I will have to read more to see if there were exemptions for employee children.

The proposed rule would not change any of the Fair Labor Standards Acts minimum age standards for agricultural employment. Under the FLSA, the legal age to be employed on a farm without restrictions is 16. The FLSA also allows children between the ages of 12 and 15 years, under certain conditions, to be employed outside of school hours to perform nonhazardous jobs on farms. Children under the age of 12 may be employed with parental permission on very small farms to perform nonhazardous jobs outside of school hours.





I've yet to read one thing about the proposed laws that I disagree with.  It wont be until your kid gets wrapped up in a PTO that you'll finally say , yeah "maybe our 12yr old shouldn't have been doing that."    

This mentality that the govenment knows better what I and my family should and shouldn't be doing is silly.  I have a brain, I know my equipment, I love my family, I teach them safety, I have experience.....lawmakers sit in an office, few have run machinery, few have set foot on a farm... Maybe liberal idiots can't think for themselves but I am an educated adult and don't need the government to tell me what to do, what to eat, where to live, how to live.....

I don't think anything in the article or the proposed rules disagree with that.  There are very few restrictions for a child of any age when working with and for their parents on their farm. Parents do know their child best.  The issue is a child who is working for a 3rd party employer.  Seems to me that the rules that were proposed were still much looser than the rules every other industry out their has to abide by.  These rules were more aimed at migrant workers and such. 
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