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Offline outspoken

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Re: Question for Hereford breeders
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2012, 04:12:20 PM »
I am glad to hear you would like to try a herf, I hope she will do a great job for you.
I've had my eyes on them for awhile now, had a neighbor where I grew up, who used to run about 12 good ole stouty Herf cows, with the black craze, he's been black bulls the last 3 or 4.  I don't think he's got any red cows left- all died off now due to age and replacement status.  I tried buying that herd once, I think there were 4 10 year old plus Herf cows left out of the 13 total- figured I could breed them for keeper  heifer calves until they died, and use the blacks as commercial cows- or try mating the baldies back red for more Herfs.  But he shut me down before I even got finished with my offer- keep in mind he's 80 plus in age too, and I wanted to rent his pasture, and as pasture rent, i'd give him a steer each year for their freezer.  So really, the only thing that would change, is I'd be the owner of the cows, and have the calves to sell for my profit....  Sounded like a good plan to me...

Offline Mtnman

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Re: Question for Hereford breeders
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2012, 04:55:24 PM »
I am glad to hear you would like to try a herf, I hope she will do a great job for you.
I've had my eyes on them for awhile now, had a neighbor where I grew up, who used to run about 12 good ole stouty Herf cows, with the black craze, he's been black bulls the last 3 or 4.  I don't think he's got any red cows left- all died off now due to age and replacement status.  I tried buying that herd once, I think there were 4 10 year old plus Herf cows left out of the 13 total- figured I could breed them for keeper  heifer calves until they died, and use the blacks as commercial cows- or try mating the baldies back red for more Herfs.  But he shut me down before I even got finished with my offer- keep in mind he's 80 plus in age too, and I wanted to rent his pasture, and as pasture rent, i'd give him a steer each year for their freezer.  So really, the only thing that would change, is I'd be the owner of the cows, and have the calves to sell for my profit....  Sounded like a good plan to me...

Funny how sometimes you just can't get a guy to listen. I believe there are some great Angus choices out there for breeding some quality hereford cows to, and then you can breed them to what ever you like and do some great things with

Offline outspoken

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Re: Question for Hereford breeders
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2012, 05:42:34 PM »
I figured I'd pay him a fair market value (whatever he wanted) for the cows, keep them (or atleast some of them, plus others) at his house, do all their chores (even in winter for the 80 year old), plus give them a steer.. which is the whole reason they got cattle in the first place...

pretty good deal I though.. O well- maybe I'll find something else, somewhere else-- even though I don't think it will be as good of a deal- I'd a really came out like a bandit though, looking back.. That's when cattle were cheap compared to today's prices...  I think it was a year and half ago when I offered him that deal-- right before cattle spiked.

Offline Stewart

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Re: Question for Hereford breeders
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2012, 09:42:39 PM »
So Hereford cows bred to One and Only should be 50:50 red, black or am I wrong?   Anyone using Nitty Gritty?

Offline outspoken

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Re: Question for Hereford breeders
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2012, 09:41:34 AM »
So Hereford cows bred to One and Only should be 50:50 red, black or am I wrong?   Anyone using Nitty Gritty?

depends on what's in his background, without looking, I'd say he's a HW son, or grandson.  HS was half shorthorn, meaning red in the genes.  HW, is 1/4, and throws every color under the sun, both do... 

Just guessing, but I'd guess when mating 1&o1 to Pure herf cows, you could expect more than 50% red baldy calves.. now, for the actual coloring pattern to classify Herf.. that might not be, if it's monitored closely.  Prob not as much as if using the HW or HS bull, of which I'd maybe shoot a stab of 75% of your calves could be red baldy's

Offline Mtnman

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Re: Question for Hereford breeders
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2012, 10:09:19 AM »
Last years calf crop of 10 ran 60% red on Hereford cows, and I believe that all of reds would classify without a problem. Interestingly enough red or herf pattern did not have abnormal markings but almost all of the black were brockle faced.

Offline outspoken

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Re: Question for Hereford breeders
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2012, 01:58:48 PM »
Last years calf crop of 10 ran 60% red on Hereford cows, and I believe that all of reds would classify without a problem. Interestingly enough red or herf pattern did not have abnormal markings but almost all of the black were brockle faced.

Interesting enough, I was going to throw the number 60% out there, but didnt' want to sound like a dumb ass and have someone come back and say what a stupid ass I was for predicting so.

Offline Stewart

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Re: Question for Hereford breeders
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2012, 03:14:03 PM »
Thanks to all.  One and Only has my interest, plus he's clean.  I'll do a search on him to learn more and I've always liked the way red baldies look.  Like ssr wrote Denver is right around the corner.  Nitty Gritty is another I'm looking at.

Offline Mtnman

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Re: Question for Hereford breeders
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2012, 07:32:22 PM »
I guess that I am not fa milliar with Nitty Gritty, so please tell me where you find his information. Bird Cattle Co. has a bull they call I AM JUST RIGHT out of Made Right on a Heat Wave cow out of Chris Blacks herd that I am thinking might make the short list this year, when I visited with him (if I remember right) he said he was a 90 lb. birth weight. That is something I find amusing, you look through all of the semen dealer web sites and catalogues and you very rarely find a clubby bull with a BW over 90. And you know the breeders looking at the average joe blow and know when they get above that number they are losing semen sales because of it. JMO

Offline Herf - enthusiast

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Re: Question for Hereford breeders
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2012, 07:45:39 PM »
I am still a huge fan of Cyrus and plan on using more of him.  This is a baby we raised that competed well in Missouri in Hereford shows and won Az national Hereford steer.  We used him on a moderate framed purebred cow and produced a good one.
Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyways.

Offline Stewart

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Re: Question for Hereford breeders
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2012, 04:33:09 PM »
Nitty Gritty is on Trausch website.  Sire Carpe Diem, Dam Dr. Who/Maine. He is a TH carrier

Offline outspoken

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Re: Question for Hereford breeders
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2012, 06:13:19 PM »
Here is the thing about carrier cattle, and trying to build a herd at the same time...

I have 4 Shorthorns (only carrier cattle ever owned) now that are carriers for one thing or another- or both in one case.  3 of them are a mother and her two (yearling and baby) daughters.  They are Double Stuff and X-Ray Vision (D.S. grandson) bred.  Due to my disliking of the two most popular bulls in the Shorthorn breed- Trump and Jake's Proud Jazz, and they're (my cow's) carrier status'= I cannot find anything to mate them to- literally.  

It is my plan to select these 4 females (they are the clubbiest and least real world) out of the herd that is at my parent's place- to bring to my new place.  I like the cattle, for everything they offer, plus to give me something different than our pretty nationally competitive sheep flock.  I'm thinking that with as fet up as I am with the sheep showing world right now (and the cattle is much better ???), when the time comes for my kids (God help the world if I have young-uns as I hear that the children are always twice as bad as the parents were) I'm thinking that we might take a more serious thought towards showing cattle- you know hitting jackpots, expos, etc...  I think the club calf circuits, and junior clubs take much more care towards the younger generation whereas our breed of sheep could care less about juniors and just view them as potential customers and/or competition.  

Back to my findings...  Because of the circumstances mentioned above, lack of gene pool diversity, and the magnitude of carrier bulls- coupled with the lack of 'clean' ones-- I cannot find a Shorthorn bull to breed with- pure or appendix- that I think will do what I want to do.  What I am looking for is a double clean bull that traces back to Double Stuff, but also has a shot of Steermaker, Wildside, or Gizmo (those 3 are options, but they're all plus 10 in age; heck Steermaker is just a few months younger than I am).  I don't really care what else is in there, as long as the big 2 are out- and it's not a pedigree jam packed with more 'commercial' type cattle= which in my head is the right thing to do... but that's not really what I'm wanting to do.  I've had this extensive search going on now, for about a month, going on two- and I have found TWO potential prospects-- one is a bull that is not available on the open market (so semen may not be collected, or for sale/ in process of checking with the owners) and the other is a May (7 month old) calf owned by a fellow S-planeteer.  I've searched through old books, websites, and every semen directory that I know of online.  I did find a couple of bulls that might work- but one was only a frame 4- and the other was an older hit and miss kinda deal that was almost proven to NOT work on this type of cow- why reinvent the wheel?

I am to the point, I've even started looking at club calf or Maine type red bulls-- just to inject the red factor; hoping my roan cows can do the rest.  That search is a little more forgiving, but not much... I think I'm up to about 3 or 4 potential deals to try out- but I want to use only one.  The thing holding me back is the lack of consistency on composite bulls- and the fact that most of the candidates are owned by one particular organization that I'd rather not purchase semen from-- although have in the past, and I'm sure will continue to in the future.  With the little bit of option I have found.. I've begun to think that I'm going to have to make my own deal (but have to have a place to start).  It's my plan to mate him to all of the females I bring up here- plus the remaining Shorthorns at home to try and make a herd bull that I; as well as others who feel the same way I do can use while the other 98% of the breed sits in their box making real world, functional cattle (where we all need to be) or tossing around breeding their midgets (JPJ) to monsters (Trump)...

I guess what I'm saying is... is if  you are wanting to build a herd for your kids-- don't get yourself or them in the situation I am in with carrier cattle and trying to match them up...  I'm too hard headed to follow the popular trend, and don't like taking stupid risks of mating carriers to carriers...  

I'd also at this point, like to get a Herf- and not have the worries of defects and just sit back breeding to the best bulls that I can afford a plastic straw of juice on...

Best of luck in your search...
« Last Edit: January 10, 2012, 06:18:35 PM by Cut the BS »

Offline Shadow Hill Farm

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Re: Question for Hereford breeders
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2012, 06:38:40 PM »
CTB mentioned Crossfire to me. I was asking for a friend of mine and he really likes him along with Charloias bull Fire Water. I haven't been able to find Crossfire's EPD's anywhere even on the AHA and was wondering if someone could help me out? Also has anyone used him on an Angus cattle before for F1's? That is what he's looking for. He's got it narrowed down to 5 bulls and Crossfire is one of them. Would love any input they have especially on maternal ability of his progeny?

Offline herfluvr

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Re: Question for Hereford breeders
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2012, 07:16:29 PM »
I have 4 Shorthorns (only carrier cattle ever owned) now that are carriers for one thing or another- or both in one case.  3 of them are a mother and her two (yearling and baby) daughters.  They are Double Stuff and X-Ray Vision (D.S. grandson) bred.  Due to my disliking of the two most popular bulls in the Shorthorn breed- Trump and Jake's Proud Jazz, and they're (my cow's) carrier status'= I cannot find anything to mate them to- literally. 

It is my plan to select these 4 females (they are the clubbiest and least real world) out of the herd that is at my parent's place- to bring to my new place.  I like the cattle, for everything they offer, plus to give me something different than our pretty nationally competitive sheep flock.  I'm thinking that with as fet up as I am with the sheep showing world right now (and the cattle is much better ), when the time comes for my kids (God help the world if I have young-uns as I hear that the children are always twice as bad as the parents were) I'm thinking that we might take a more serious thought towards showing cattle- you know hitting jackpots, expos, etc...  I think the club calf circuits, and junior clubs take much more care towards the younger generation whereas our breed of sheep could care less about juniors and just view them as potential customers and/or competition

I will not BS you :)  You are conflicted.  If you cannot find what you need with the cattle you have maybe you need to start over.  Building a herd on cows that limits your bull selection right off the bat limits your potential.  I would assume you have culled the ewes and rams that have not performed well to attain national quality.  Why would you not use the same principles when building a cow herd?  If you have attained this type of success you also know there are niches for breeds that can make you very competitive and in the cattle world some of the best youth programs are run by the purebred organizations.  And lastly, is say...Go Herf!  The hereford cattle coming out of the breeding programs across the nation are some of the best ever.  Good Luck in your choice and if you have small children you will never regret putting them on the end of a herf lead. 

Offline outspoken

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Re: Question for Hereford breeders
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2012, 07:30:38 PM »
i have culled them off.. that's the problem, along the way i somehow convinced myself that these stupid carriers were worth keeping.. and now that they're producing, continue to convince myself they are worth keeping and building around..

if I weren't a block head, I'd have a million bulls to choose from... but hey, I don't have any kids yet... so i can continue to tinker around, and make sale barn cattle for the next atleast 10 years...

 

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