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Offline cowman 52

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Red angus
« on: June 18, 2017, 09:01:09 PM »
Does any one have some insight on what or where red angus association is headed?  Seems a new computer system and a move to a Denver suburb is counter to promoting cattle, but what in the heck do I know.

Offline Gargan

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Re: Red angus
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2017, 07:41:52 AM »
I tried to run a promo bull ad (red baldy 3/4 sim) in their monthly catalog and got turned down, after I was told that as long as he was red or simmy, they'd run it. Had me really confused. I'd say it was miscommunication on their part but still piss poor business imo.
Welfare's purpose should be to eliminate, as far as possible, the need for its own existence.  -Ronald reagan

Offline Medium Rare

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Re: Red angus
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2017, 09:20:18 AM »
I only keep papers on a few head so they probably don't care what I think, but the registration, data system, and general turnaround time was a joke. I would welcome any change that continues to simplify that process into anything close to what other associations are using. I understand they spent a small fortune and were really struggling with it, but at some point you have to get it together.

Offline Show stopper 95

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Re: Red angus
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2017, 11:34:48 AM »
It's the Cleveland browns of breed associations a big ol grand scale dumpster fire
Good, better, best. Never let it rest. Until your good is better and your better is best. -Tim Duncan

Braden House- Big House Show Cattle Iola Tx 9796761450. Charolais, Charolais x, Americans,  Canadian Red Angus, and Club Calves.

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: Red angus
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2017, 01:31:15 PM »
All these associations are paving the way for each breeder to coin their own line of cattle and do away with these NVA associations altogether.  They're all a big fat joke and a guise by which to fleece money from cattlemen and funnel it towards junior associations, annual meetings, world conferences, and other illusionary events that don't provide one single cent to the due payer's bottom line.
The jack of all trades is the master of none-

Offline RedBulls

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Re: Red angus
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2017, 10:39:03 AM »
All these associations are paving the way for each breeder to coin their own line of cattle and do away with these NVA associations altogether.  They're all a big fat joke and a guise by which to fleece money from cattlemen and funnel it towards junior associations, annual meetings, world conferences, and other illusionary events that don't provide one single cent to the due payer's bottom line.

AMEN!

Offline 764wdchev

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Re: Red angus
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2017, 03:42:40 PM »
The main reason for these associations (to manage the a registry), has been shifted to Digital Beef. For registration we could just use Digital Beef, and the Associations could then just focus on their pet projects. Digital Beef can partner with GeneSeek (Neogen), and do all the DNA testing for them. It appears GeneSeek and Digital Beef are benefiting from nearly every Association. 
If it was easy, everyone would succeed.

Offline cowman 52

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Re: Red angus
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2017, 06:56:31 AM »
Have you noticed not even the breed promoters are quiet?  Big sale in Texas, old guy new to the breed, can't even find the sale results.  Auctioneers don't have much on their sites.  Just wonder if it's about as out as the Santa gertrudus is?

Online cbcr

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Re: Red angus
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2017, 08:43:39 AM »
All these associations are paving the way for each breeder to coin their own line of cattle and do away with these NVA associations altogether.  They're all a big fat joke and a guise by which to fleece money from cattlemen and funnel it towards junior associations, annual meetings, world conferences, and other illusionary events that don't provide one single cent to the due payer's bottom line.

Comments we hear from many breeders is that it is too expensive to register animals.  When associations raise fees in order to cover the cost of offices, staff, etc., it is the membership that is expected to pay.  But at what price.  When associations do raise the fees, they lose membership and fewer cattle are registered, which is unfortunate.

Maintaining a "Herd Book": The term "Herd Book" is used worldwide to designate the procedure  for the recording of the lineage of any group or species.  Herd Books represent the foundation of livestock breeding, livestock improvement, and both phenotypic and genotypic evaluation of animals in the process of breeding and breed improvement.  The single most important purpose of a Herd Book is identification, which includes the identification of ancestry, individual animals, and the offspring.  It is the responsibility of registry organizations to maintain the records of the Herd Book for a reliable source of information which the breeders utilize as a credible source of information.

Breeders and Owners by joining together with an Association, and registering their cattle adds to the "Herd Book".  When a potential customer looks to purchase animals, the registration certificate and information from an Association offers validity in knowing that they can accept the pedigree and ancestry on an animal.

Today, the majority of "Breed" Associations fail to focus on their breed and allow for other breeds to be used in creating a Composite with their breed.  But these Composites have no standards except that they must have at least 25% of that Association breed in their makeup.

The single most important purpose of a Herd Book is identification, which includes the identification of ancestry, individual animals, and the offspring.  How many of these Association also fail in providing the detailed ancestry of the animals?  Even if a Registered Angus cow is in the pedigree, the pedigree information on that cow is only listed as "Commercial Angus" or "Angus Cow". Associations are so anxious to take money from breeders but do not do their due diligence when it comes to the information and accuracy of the registrations and pedigrees they provide.

We, as the Composite Registries, "Composite Beef Cattle Registry" and "Composite Dairy Cattle Registry" just turned 4 years old.  We were laughed at, criticized and ridiculed when we started saying we would never last.  But we are still here and continue to grow. We also have contracts for providing registration services for other breed organizations.  Our registration certificates are not only accepted in the US, but also Internationally.  We have even had other Associations contact us for pedigree information on their own animals.  We do our due diligence in providing accurate pedigree information as well as the breed composition and percentage of each breed.

Our Composite Dairy Cattle Registry was started at the request of many owners of "Non-Traditional" dairy breeds, Fleckvieh, Montbeliarde, Viking Reds, Norwegian Red and other crosses.  Another Association decided that most of these were not considered as recognized dairy breeds, but they would gladly take the money for registrations.  Fleckvieh and Montbeliarde bulls born here in the US have had semen exported to Russia and several other European Countries. One member in the UK, had registered animals with the Ayrshire and Shorthorn Societies in the UK, but joined our Registry.  The pedigrees on his animals from the other Societies were incomplete and inaccurate, on some animals only with 2 generations of the dams (and some of them were wrong).  We were able to go back anywhere from 7 generations to over 10 generations and provide accurate breed percentages.  He has some bulls that have been genomic tested here in the US and one of them is in the top 10 of the Ayrshire and Red Breed bulls.  He has exported semen on them to Australia and now has sent semen to the US.

We have also seen the development of the "North American Red" which is any combination of US or Canadian Ayrshire, the Viking Red Breeds and Norwegian Red and not be over 13% Holstein.  With the development of the "North American Red" on the recent dairy evaluations on the top Ayrshire and Red Breed cow list, out of the top 100 cows on the list 85 of them were ours.  "North American Red" bulls are also now in semen production.

The main reason for these associations (to manage the a registry), has been shifted to Digital Beef. For registration we could just use Digital Beef, and the Associations could then just focus on their pet projects. Digital Beef can partner with GeneSeek (Neogen), and do all the DNA testing for them. It appears GeneSeek and Digital Beef are benefiting from nearly every Association.

The Digital Beef Program is expensive for Associations and if you look up a pedigree thru one Association an animal that is registered in another Association is incomplete.  You have to go to the other Association to get the pedigree information.  When we started and looked at software programs for breed Association prices were anywhere from $30,000 to over $70,000, and then the yearly fees for maintenance and updates were very costly as well.  The cost of these programs ultimately is covered by the increased fees charged by associations.

While we do use GeneSeek for our genomic testing, tests are not available for some breeds.  It takes time to build up the databases for a specific breed (about 1,000 animals).  Then it is a matter of feasibility and economics for GeneSeek to determine if the expense of creating a test for a breed is worth the cost of developing it.  And this is true of any business, does the cost justify the means?

 

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