Red Angus bull

What is the best Red Angus bull going for the show ring?

Well that depends on what you mean by show ring.

If it's about the hair and "pop" then there isn't one. But if it's about efficient, proper structured cattle then there is. There is no Heatwave or Ali type Red Angus bull. There are bulls that will produce steers and heifers that sure embarrass the judges who go for the "pop."

Not to say the "pop" cattle are bad or wrong, just different. One is a beauty contest and the other is a market based one. But they haven't decided to split the two up (yet).

JMHO

As for what are good bulls that market based judges like. In the last few years on steers Glacier Chateau or Mulberry seem to be hot. On the heifer side Perks Advance 121R, Mulberry or Ubar High Capacity.  Again just my opinion.

121R has kind of fell out of bed since his milk EPD went in the tank.Mulberry seems to be the dominant bull right now for both the show ring and sale ring. The Mulberies that I have had and seen are thick and deep with good structure and phenotype - MHO he is the real deal. RW

I would say that Mulberry and Fully Loaded are two of the best I have seen and they are both Canadian bulls. There may be others in the US that I have not seen. The first pictured is Mulberry , the second is Fully Loaded.  I have a couple Durham Red calves sired by Mulberry. All I can say is "WOW!"  Now that is a great cross!

JIT I would have mentioned Fully Loaded but semen is hard to come by and I haven't been impressed with any of his sons. I will say the picture you have on him in his working clothes is better than his show pics.

RW 121R's milk epd did bother me. But I have seen him used to moderate those high "milkers" and the heifers look real nice. Now the estimated milk epd looks good and will have to see what it really turns out to be. But the kids are young and willing to try what I might not. Besides we'll breed them to Master Plan and then to Mulberry for their second calf.

RW I am curious as to what you (the all intuitive RA guru ) thinks of Majestic Lightning?

Is mulberry marble bone free? I had a Red Angus breeder tell me that marble bone was pretty much isolated to the canyon line....which is amazing to me.

Mulberry certainly makes some impressive cattle, however, with that said Mulberry has not been tested for marble bone, despite the fact that Dr B was willing to test the entire catalog of AI sires from Brylors in his validation of the test.

The marble bone carriers and free bulls are listed on the RAAA web site

It is my understanding that the test either is or is very close to being commercially available

Sakic is MB free and apparently has some pretty impressive offspring

I can only believe that using MB free bulls is a good thing and assume that any high profile untested bull is a carrier until proven otherwise - with these tests available to bull owners and studs not using them sends a message

I have heard that a producer will be sending in a straw of Mulberry for testing - pity that the owners/breeders don't step up to the plate

It does leave a black eye on his sires. He should either test them or make a statement as to why not.

SD said:

JIT I would have mentioned Fully Loaded but semen is hard to come by and I haven't been impressed with any of his sons. I will say the picture you have on him in his working clothes is better than his show pics.

RW 121R's milk epd did bother me. But I have seen him used to moderate those high "milkers" and the heifers look real nice. Now the estimated milk epd looks good and will have to see what it really turns out to be. But the kids are young and will to try what I might not. Besides we'll breed them to Master Plan and then to Mulberry for their second calf.

RW I am curious as to what you (the all intuitive RA guru ) thinks of Majestic Lightning?

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SD - I don't believe the Lightning bull will be a major "breed changer" that will make a significant impact on the breed. Yes he will probably sire some nice calves but I honestly don't see those calves dominating the show or sale ring in the future like some have in the past. Brylor will likely test the bulls in their offering in the near future, I know Brian well enough to know that if he is losing market share on the bulls because they are not tested he will step up - it's dollars and cents. There will be many Mulberry sons and daughters tested as soon as the test becomes commercially available, that may tell the ultimatr tale. So far I have dodged the MB deal - at least I don't have direct influence of any of the dirty cattle that have been identified, but you never know what may pop up 5,6,7 generations back to kick you in the pants. Grand Canyon is probably the most influential "dirty" sire listed at this point. RW

According to Larry Keenan (RAA) there will be a commercial test available soon -- although none of my bulls trace back you can bet I will have semen straws tested ASAP, it's just good business.

I almost wonder if the early Red angus breeders didn't recognize a problem with some Red Angus lines and they nipping the thing in the bud in the 70's. It would make a fascinating story if true.Blue Alpha Leader out.

It would be an easy one to miss aj - calves aborted 240 to 275 d may not be found and voila the cow turns up open

the test is now available (from the RAAA web site)

AgriGenomics, LLC. an RAAA approved DNA testing facility is now accepting Red Angus samples to test for the presence of the mutation which has been shown to cause Osteopetrosis in Red Angus Cattle.

Some things you will want to know prior to submitting samples:

    * Test results will be returned to the RAAA and will be posted.
    * Samples must be submitted by owner, breeder, or lessee/agent on record.
    * AgriGenomics can test the same sample for Osteopetrosis (OS) and Arthrogryposis Multiplex (AM).
    * AgriGenomics can accept only whole blood (purple top tubes) or semen.
    * Additional facilites capable of utilizing tail hair or blood (FTA) cards are expected to be approved within the next several weeks.
    * Samples must be submitted via the
      Red Angus/AgriGenomics sample submission form.

I spoke with my neighbor who is a pretty well connected/informed Angus breeder. He said he spoke with a couple from Iowa who runs a DNA lab for about 3 hours the other night. Apparently they were working on on test samples for Marble Bone in a popular Angus line. Looks like there's another possibility to add on to that deformity list. The list of clean/dirty acronyms will eventually be longer than the pedigree!

klintdog said:

I spoke with my neighbor who is a pretty well connected/informed Angus breeder. He said he spoke with a couple from Iowa who runs a DNA lab for about 3 hours the other night. Apparently they were working on on test samples for Marble Bone in a popular Angus line. Looks like there's another possibility to add on to that deformity list. The list of clean/dirty acronyms will eventually be longer than the pedigree!

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Well...what's one more!  I say keep them coming!  If there are defects we need to get them out in the open so we can eradicate them.  I assume that you are talking about Black Angus.  I've dodged the bulllet on AM.  Waiting on hydro now. 

I'm starting to foresee another table in all the catalogs right next to the EPD table. It'll list out AM, PHA, TH, Hydro, Marble Bone, Fawn Calf, Monkey Pox, Count Choculitis, and a few others.

And yeah, this was on Black Angus cattle.

klintdog said:

I'm starting to foresee another table in all the catalogs right next to the EPD table. It'll list out AM, PHA, TH, Hydro, Marble Bone, Fawn Calf, Monkey Pox, Count Choculitis, and a few others.

And yeah, this was on Black Angus cattle.

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I didn't follow the post completely on the maines being able to still register carrier PHA bull but I was rather disapointed. The only way to handle a defect is to not allow people to register their cattle if they are a carrier.  I think a grace period should be allowed but the offspring should be tested.  I really don't see the AM being a factor in the Angus breed for long.  Everybody I know is avoiding it like the plague and the registration regulations will kill that defect as well.

The dollars needed to test for things is really increasing. What is the best way to present it on the cash flow statement? Vet or breeding expense?

Marble bone has been documented in black Angus cattle long ago - there is a list of carriers documented either by 2 MB calves or by sire-daughter matings

Apparently it has reared it's ugly head in the Angus breed

The current test for MB ONLY works in RA - it appears that the black Angus mutation is different

I share your disappointment CD - the word from the block at the MI Beef Expo Maine sale was how nice it was that we can register PHA carrier bulls - special eh?

The test is commercially available, and now the wait starts.... tick, tick, tick.

Has anyone used Red Six Mile Sakic 832S? Thanks