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Offline Show Heifer

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Re: Red Angus herd sires at RW's
« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2010, 07:36:33 PM »
I have been told by many bull owners that they have roughly $1 per straw in semen. Roughly $20-50 in sexed semen. And most is $20-40 per straw retail.
Exactly what does the bull owner or assoc have to do with bull certs? I call the semen company which carries the bull and order certs, I pay them and they "transfer" it to my acct at the association.
And the bull owner deserves this money how? Exactly what does the semen certs do?

Just another way to get more money out of the guy who has put faith in a bull they do not own. Not exactly a big ol' thank you in my book.
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Offline Torch

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Re: Red Angus herd sires at RW's
« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2010, 07:48:57 PM »
Not against bull owners getting their due. But I do think that there needs to be streamlining at the national office. The website needs to be cutting edge not the report generating dinosaur it currently is. Should be able to register calves in real time online. For a "progressive" association at times we are stuck in the past.
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Offline ROAD WARRIOR

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Re: Red Angus herd sires at RW's
« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2010, 08:25:34 PM »
I have been told by many bull owners that they have roughly $1 per straw in semen. Roughly $20-50 in sexed semen. And most is $20-40 per straw retail.
Exactly what does the bull owner or assoc have to do with bull certs? I call the semen company which carries the bull and order certs, I pay them and they "transfer" it to my acct at the association.
And the bull owner deserves this money how? Exactly what does the semen certs do?

Just another way to get more money out of the guy who has put faith in a bull they do not own. Not exactly a big ol' thank you in my book.

Bull owners have to buy nonownership bull permits (certs) from the association and in turn p[ass the cost of that on to the owners of the calves. I had a bull collected at Genex Hawkeye West very recently. The bull was boarded there for about 10 days, between boarding, collection and misc fees it figured out to be about $7.50 a straw. Maybe they cut better deals to people that collect multiple bulls but I can't get it done for $1.00 a straw. Put the cost of storage on top of that and the dollar signs start adding up pretty quickly. This is not to mention the initial cost of the bull that the owners are trying to recapture a small part of. Most people that complain about the cost of semen would not spend their own money ($10,000,20,000, 30,000+) to get those genetics, I have paid over $100.00 a straw for semen when I thought the genetics would improve my herd and never batted an eye. It is a gamble but no one forced me to buy that semen, there are alot of "cheap" bulls you can AI to if that is what you chose to do. Another thing to think about is if the semen is priced higher, most people will breed their top cows and not every cow in the herd increasing the chances of higher quality calves being produced. RW
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Offline justintime

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Re: Red Angus herd sires at RW's
« Reply #48 on: June 21, 2010, 08:55:24 PM »
I have been told by many bull owners that they have roughly $1 per straw in semen. Roughly $20-50 in sexed semen. And most is $20-40 per straw retail.
Exactly what does the bull owner or assoc have to do with bull certs? I call the semen company which carries the bull and order certs, I pay them and they "transfer" it to my acct at the association.
And the bull owner deserves this money how? Exactly what does the semen certs do?

Just another way to get more money out of the guy who has put faith in a bull they do not own. Not exactly a big ol' thank you in my book.

Bull owners have to buy nonownership bull permits (certs) from the association and in turn p[ass the cost of that on to the owners of the calves. I had a bull collected at Genex Hawkeye West very recently. The bull was boarded there for about 10 days, between boarding, collection and misc fees it figured out to be about $7.50 a straw. Maybe they cut better deals to people that collect multiple bulls but I can't get it done for $1.00 a straw. Put the cost of storage on top of that and the dollar signs start adding up pretty quickly. This is not to mention the initial cost of the bull that the owners are trying to recapture a small part of. Most people that complain about the cost of semen would not spend their own money ($10,000,20,000, 30,000+) to get those genetics, I have paid over $100.00 a straw for semen when I thought the genetics would improve my herd and never batted an eye. It is a gamble but no one forced me to buy that semen, there are alot of "cheap" bulls you can AI to if that is what you chose to do. Another thing to think about is if the semen is priced higher, most people will breed their top cows and not every cow in the herd increasing the chances of higher quality calves being produced. RW

I agree with RW 110% . Semen is without any doubt in my mind, the cheapest input cost a beef producer has. I just collected a bull at Hawkeye and with everything included in the costs, it will be very close to $10 per straw, mind you, my bull was in stud much longer in order to collect some exportable semen. Maybe if you are collecting on the farm, for your own use, you might get close to $2 per straw, but I doubt it.... at least where I live. Most people who collect semen here, have a flat fee of $400 - $500 regardless of how much semen is frozen. I just collected another bull here, for our own " on farm " use, and we froze 60 straws, at a cost of $400 plus travel costs. This bull should have been rested longer as he had been out breeding cows until a couple days before he was collected. Just the vet bill alone at Hawkeye for one bull was over $2.50 a straw. If there is someplace to collect for $1 a straw, I have not found it and I have talked with a bunch of places that collect semen.

I hear people complaining more all the time about the price of semen, yet we hardly ever heard this 40 years ago when we started selling semen. In 1974 we started selling semen on a new herd sire at $40 per dose. I never had one person complain about the cost of the semen, yet today, I hear complaints about semen costing too much. Seems to me the people who complain the loudest always have the fanciest truck and trailer as well. My dad started to AI cows in the mid 60s and the semen he used cost $30-$45 per dose, and he had a travelling technican inseminate the cows at $18 per service ( with one repeat service at $10). I can remember him AIing 80-100 cows each spring. After a couple years he went and took an AI course, which in those days was 2 weeks long and cost $1500. I think if you put those costs in today's $$ you would see that semen prices and the costs of AI are dirt cheap today.

I see nothing wrong with semen prices on the top bulls selling for significantly higher amounts. These guys should be entitled to a good return on their money. It is a business and they took all the risks. There is no law that says anyone has to use it if they think it is too high priced. Just like there is no law saying you have to buy a Cadillac. If all you can afford is a compact car, that is what you buy. The same should work in this business.
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Offline ROAD WARRIOR

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Re: Red Angus herd sires at RW's
« Reply #49 on: June 21, 2010, 09:03:18 PM »
And let's not for get about the costs associated with promoting a new bull! RW
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Offline Show Heifer

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Re: Red Angus herd sires at RW's
« Reply #50 on: June 21, 2010, 09:44:35 PM »
I wouldn't blink an eye at $100 a straw either. In fact, as silly as it seems, I have paid $1250.00 a straw.  So trust me, I am not one to complain about $30-50 dollar semen. I think it is fair to sell semen at whatever the bull owner thinks its worth... how did that work for some of those "exclusive" bulls, or "limited supply" bulls that all of sudden find new life and get cheap again. Price it high, price it cheap, your right, I can take it or leave it, my choice.

I am not saying AI stud owners are getting rich, because lets face it, you won't hear of 98% of them by year 3 (maybe year 2).  So you have your intital investment (usually at LEAST a partnership, or 5-10 partners if any money changes hands at all), promotion (pretty cheap here on SP, but expensive else where), collection (if the bull collects at all), and then the "keeping the customer satisfied" (if the bull owner cares).  So no, I don't think it is a money making machine, but it must work enough that people are willing to "bet the ranch" on one purchase.  I am glad they do, as I enjoy using bulls I would never get the opportunity to use otherwise.

Limiting a bulls use on "superior cows" doesn't really prove the bull in my opinion. For example, heatwave has sired many champions, but out of how may? What PERCENT are winners?  I want a  bull that is a cow changer, not one that just produces good calves from superior cows. Heck, any bull can do that. I can name more than one bull that was a "heifer bull with tons of grow" when used by selected owners, or selected cattleman, but when on the open market went to a heifer killing pud producing bull that no one will use again. If a bull producer really wants to see how good his bull is, they should be on the open market, and ALL calves get reported (hense the THR of the RAAA) . 

The RA breed is many years behind the limmi breed in the bull certs.... I can't remember the last time I bought one of those.... but of course haven't tried for many years!

So I guess in summary, I am glad the red assoc got rid of certs... no "hidden cost". Raising the price of semen is ok by me. Get what you can, take what you can get. Yep, that is the American way!
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Offline frostback

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Re: Red Angus herd sires at RW's
« Reply #51 on: June 21, 2010, 11:42:03 PM »
The RA breed is many years behind the limmi breed in the bull certs.... I can't remember the last time I bought one of those.... but of course haven't tried for many years!


[/quote]

You have never bought a Limi cert, they never had them.
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Offline BadgerFan

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Re: Red Angus herd sires at RW's
« Reply #52 on: June 22, 2010, 08:25:45 AM »
The RA breed is many years behind the limmi breed in the bull certs.... I can't remember the last time I bought one of those.... but of course haven't tried for many years!



You have never bought a Limi cert, they never had them.

[/quote]

And how many commercial cattlemen buy Limousin semen for $40 to AI their cows?  Among the flaws that others have pointed out, the one  positive thing the AI cert concept did allow was pricing of semen at a cheaper retail price allowing commercial cattlemen to buy semen at a reasonable rate.

Offline RedCowsRule

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Re: Red Angus herd sires at RW's
« Reply #53 on: June 22, 2010, 01:57:04 PM »
RW,
how did the Perks sale go?  Where did Perks Red Robin 41R go?  I really like the looks of her.


The sale was HOT! 41R brought $6500, I'm not sure where she did end up going. I was on the phone buying from start to finish and didn't catch where some of them ended up going, my man on the phone was contending bidder on her and I was busy with him and nissed who got her. High selling lot was the full sib to Super Vision at $13,000. RW

Hmmm, I thought she might be a five figure cow, that may have been a pretty good buy.  I might see where she ends up, I'm sure they'll flush her down the road.  She's a spittin' image of my current red donor.  If I could get those two both in a pedigree, I could make some really consistent beautiful red cows.

I ended up getting the 41R cow and am starting to try to build a new herd here in Indiana.  Since I am new to the breed, what bulls would you guys recommend using on her to buiild a base of solid, functional cows?  Right now we are planning to flush her to build a set of cows for us, but may try to offer some flushes or something in the future.  Does anyone have any experience with the Diamond T Hips Stout bulll that Brylor is pushing?  I ended up with some of that semen at the Perks deal as well.

Offline ROAD WARRIOR

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Re: Red Angus herd sires at RW's
« Reply #54 on: June 22, 2010, 04:25:09 PM »
The Stout bull is a decent kind of bull - I was contending bidder on the semen at the Perks sale. While I don't think he is a breed mover, I do think he is very usable. He should be pretty decent as far as calving ease goes. He has a kind of unique pedigree compared to alot of bulls available today, The Boomer ex JR 107 prdigree should be pretty maternal. As far as the 41R cow goes - I think you got a bargain, if she had sold a few lots later in the sale I think she would have brought alot more. I would flush her to Walkerton 10W, but I also own him ;). There are alot of different ways you could go with her as far as flushing goes, Mulberry and Walkerton are the two bulls that I am currently flushing with. RW
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Offline Show Heifer

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Re: Red Angus herd sires at RW's
« Reply #55 on: June 22, 2010, 04:37:48 PM »
The RA breed is many years behind the limmi breed in the bull certs.... I can't remember the last time I bought one of those.... but of course haven't tried for many years!
You have never bought a Limi cert, they never had them.
[/quote]

Guess that is why I don't remember them huh. I SAID I can't remember when I bought one... guess I was right (I was under the age of 10 when I was into fullblood limmis)  I CAN remember my Dad being one of first people in our area to AI, and THEE first to use full french limmi bulls. Oh the days of 747, Eclair.... the days of thick cattle that weren't fat, and super lean tender beef.... yes, I remember those days for sure.

Congrats on your purchase of 41R.... I was worried when they said they were going to flush her prior to the sale so they could sell embryos.... I hope she works out for you! I would look at the Six Mile and Soo Line programs north of the border, or look at some programs such as Strawberry Ridge, Peacock Ranch, Cross Diamond or Feddes. It really depends on if your planning on showing, or are going to focus on the performance numbers.
 
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Offline CAB

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Re: Red Angus herd sires at RW's
« Reply #56 on: September 14, 2011, 11:29:54 AM »
I was just thinking about your new bulls Stu and wondering what you are thinking of their progeny. Brent

Offline cownerd

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Re: Red Angus herd sires at RW's
« Reply #57 on: September 14, 2011, 04:26:28 PM »
I love the top bull.

Offline CAB

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Re: Red Angus herd sires at RW's
« Reply #58 on: September 15, 2011, 11:13:40 AM »
RW, do you have an American registration # for Walkerton 10W yet? I was trying to navigate the Canadian Angus web-site and couldn't get it figured out. Thanks, Brent

Offline Red Cow Relocators

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Re: Red Angus herd sires at RW's
« Reply #59 on: September 16, 2011, 12:40:53 AM »
RW, do you have an American registration # for Walkerton 10W yet? I was trying to navigate the Canadian Angus web-site and couldn't get it figured out. Thanks, Brent

go to the canandian site and put in Walkertons tattoos LMP 10W. That should get you there.RCR
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