Roy Lovaas (Hidden Hill Farm Shorthorns)

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PhilWaters67

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Hi all!

I was wondering if anyone on here knows what is up with Roy Lovaas and his Shorthorn program now days.  I remember he was starting a Native Shorthorn breeding program a few years back.  I have not seen an update on his website since 2008 (8 years ago).  Is he still raising Native Shorthorn cattle? 
 

librarian

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I bought my bull, HHFS Amos, from Roy. He stopped registering because the ASA offended him. He has a thriving grass fed beef business and sells breeding stock to those who seek him out. He is using a really nice Oakwood Conductor son as his herdsire and his herd is a beautiful, uniform group, mostly purple roans. Just give him a call.
 

MDitmars

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I have talked to him a bit and he told me he didn't have easy access to update his website. His daughter was his embryologist and recently (last couple of years) took a job at a university a little too far away. Can't remember which one but he indicated that put a halt to a lot of his et work for now. Librarian is right he isn't exactly keeping up on registry and I haven't gotten a chance to visit him yet. I tried earlier this spring but I couldn't connect up with him when I was up that way to stop by for a visit. Calling him would definitely be worth your time.

Couple other individuals to get in touch with for native would be Dennis Hoffrogge and Ryan Galbreath.
 

justintime

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I guess I really struggle to understand anyone who quits registering, because they don't like what the association is doing. I realize it is a protest against the association but to me, it seems that the breeder takes the far biggest hit. If a person feels they have some good breeding stock, they are basically commercial cattle without registration papers. I oftentimes wonder if this is used as an excuse more that actual fact.
There have been lots and lots of times I have never agreed with decisions made by a breed association ( I have registered 8 breeds over the last several decades) but I can never ever remember thinking of not registering my cattle. I am not sure what it is like in the US but I find it almost impossible to sell a bull for breeding purposes to a commercial or purebred breeder and almost impossible to sell a non registered female for much over market prices without a registration paper of some kind. I also doubt if any breed spends very much time worrying about the few animals someone never registered. To me, this is about the poorest method of seeking change in a breed that there is. End of rant!
 

trevorgreycattleco

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The Asa is a joke. They offer nothing. They don't help with sales. The charge outrageous prices to submit data. The epd's are totally manipulated. Why in the hell would you continue to support that? I've got a bunch of cattle to register but I've not done it. Basically we are paying for a piece of paper.
 

kiblercattle

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Mar 2, 2011
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As of now out here in the western states what I see is that there is such a small market for. Shorthorn bulls is that the people who want them do not care about papers.
 

justintime

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kiblercattle said:
As of now out here in the western states what I see is that there is such a small market for. Shorthorn bulls is that the people who want them do not care about papers.

It is not the job of any breed organization to sell your cattle. This is the job of each and every breeder to do. The breed association should promote the breed as a whole in the industry, but it should never promote one or a few breeders over others. I have seen so many cases where a breed field man buys cattle in a sale and gets bad mouthed for months from other breeders who he did not buy from. In regards to papers, I have never had a single commercial producer tell me he did not want papers on a bull. A few years ago, I had a very good bull in my bull sale that was out of a Shorthorn cow ( most likely a purebred) that was not registered. She was a cow I bought to use as a recip but she was so good I decided to breed her for a natural calf. I put this bull in my sale because I thought he was one of the best bulls in the pen that year. He was the only bull that passed in the sale. He went in our deep freeze. I suppose if you are only interested in selling cheap bulls to people who only want a bull of any kind to get their cows in calf, you can probably find some buyers who do not want registration papers. I have yet to see a leading commercial producer not want a pedigree and some documentation of what he is buying.

So many people think that a breed association should do their job. The last purebred herd I had besides my Shorthorn herd, was a herd of 100 PB Charolais cows. I never had anyone from the Charolais association ever help me sell my bulls. Before that, I had herds of several other breeds. In every case, it was the quality of my bulls and the work I did that sold my cattle. I will also add that customer service is also a huge part of selling cattle. This was brought home to me this year again, when I delivered 3 bulls to a commercial producer who bought in our sale for the first time this year. His 3 yearling bulls averaged $6850 each and he told me that the reason he decided to buy in our sale was that I told him that I would bring the bulls back to our farm after the sale and deliver them closer to when he needed them. I brought these 3 bulls home and they went back in the same pen and on the same feed for 3 months and then delivered them 270 miles to his farm...  and did not charge him anything for this service. I also took the time when I was at his place to go through his cows and calves. He told me I was the first person he had ever bought bulls from, that had took the time to see his cattle. This producer has 700 cows and the hour out of my life to see his cowherd, will probably be one of the best investments in time I have made in a long time. It was very obvious to me, that this man was as proud of his cows as any purebred breeder's herd I have ever visited. This guy and his wife have already come to our farm this summer and gone through our herd as they wanted to see the bulls on their mothers. He says he will be at our sale next March.  The breed association had nothing to do with this sale. I will add that when I first spoke to this man on the phone prior to our sale, he asked me if I would supply registration papers on the bulls. He said he would buy his bulls elsewhere if registration papers did not come with the bulls. I hear so many people complain about how much it costs to register their cattle. To me, it is one of the best investments I can make on my cattle. If I don't think it is worth the $25-$50 extra per head to have documentation on my cattle, then I think it is time I should turn a bull of another breed in with my cows.
Being negative about your breed or the breed association, without ever offering possible solutions just never works and only makes your own life miserable. There is so much more involved in being successful in the purebred beef business than just producing them. Marketing, promotion and customer service are also key components of any success you might have.
Here is another example of customer service. Two years ago, I had a commercial producer come to our sale and he purchased 4 bulls. This was the first Shorthorn sale he had ever attended, and this man runs 800 cows. One of the bulls he bought cost him $9750. I always urge buyers to insure their purchases especially if they are coming back to our farm after the sale. About two months after the sale, I found the bull that sold for $9750 in the pen with a broken leg. I called the buyer and he told me he had not insured his bulls. I really don't think this bull broke his leg because of anything I had done, but I told him I would give him a $5000 credit in our sale last spring. He showed up and bought 3 bulls at $23,000 with a top price of $8000. I probably didn't need to do this, but I felt it was a very good investment to make to retain a customer who potentially could buy numerous bulls every year.
 

librarian

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What was the ASA fracture with Ron Bolze about?

Since we are talking about where is Roy Lovaas today, One has to wonder how an individual who is one of the absolutely most knowledgable about Shorthorns, Diligently sourced Native Shorthorn genetics to infuse into modern genetics to recover functionality, and continues to breed exactly the kind of real world Shorthorns that are increasingly in demand today, came to give up on the ASA.
I have asked him and he is too gentlemanly to dwell on the rupture.



 

cbcr

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Feb 17, 2011
Messages
332
justintime said:
kiblercattle said:
As of now out here in the western states what I see is that there is such a small market for. Shorthorn bulls is that the people who want them do not care about papers.

It is not the job of any breed organization to sell your cattle. This is the job of each and every breeder to do. The breed association should promote the breed as a whole in the industry, but it should never promote one or a few breeders over others. I have seen so many cases where a breed field man buys cattle in a sale and gets bad mouthed for months from other breeders who he did not buy from. In regards to papers, I have never had a single commercial producer tell me he did not want papers on a bull. A few years ago, I had a very good bull in my bull sale that was out of a Shorthorn cow ( most likely a purebred) that was not registered. She was a cow I bought to use as a recip but she was so good I decided to breed her for a natural calf. I put this bull in my sale because I thought he was one of the best bulls in the pen that year. He was the only bull that passed in the sale. He went in our deep freeze. I suppose if you are only interested in selling cheap bulls to people who only want a bull of any kind to get their cows in calf, you can probably find some buyers who do not want registration papers. I have yet to see a leading commercial producer not want a pedigree and some documentation of what he is buying.

So many people think that a breed association should do their job. The last purebred herd I had besides my Shorthorn herd, was a herd of 100 PB Charolais cows. I never had anyone from the Charolais association ever help me sell my bulls. Before that, I had herds of several other breeds. In every case, it was the quality of my bulls and the work I did that sold my cattle. I will also add that customer service is also a huge part of selling cattle. This was brought home to me this year again, when I delivered 3 bulls to a commercial producer who bought in our sale for the first time this year. His 3 yearling bulls averaged $6850 each and he told me that the reason he decided to buy in our sale was that I told him that I would bring the bulls back to our farm after the sale and deliver them closer to when he needed them. I brought these 3 bulls home and they went back in the same pen and on the same feed for 3 months and then delivered them 270 miles to his farm...  and did not charge him anything for this service. I also took the time when I was at his place to go through his cows and calves. He told me I was the first person he had ever bought bulls from, that had took the time to see his cattle. This producer has 700 cows and the hour out of my life to see his cowherd, will probably be one of the best investments in time I have made in a long time. It was very obvious to me, that this man was as proud of his cows as any purebred breeder's herd I have ever visited. This guy and his wife have already come to our farm this summer and gone through our herd as they wanted to see the bulls on their mothers. He says he will be at our sale next March.  The breed association had nothing to do with this sale. I will add that when I first spoke to this man on the phone prior to our sale, he asked me if I would supply registration papers on the bulls. He said he would buy his bulls elsewhere if registration papers did not come with the bulls. I hear so many people complain about how much it costs to register their cattle. To me, it is one of the best investments I can make on my cattle. If I don't think it is worth the $25-$50 extra per head to have documentation on my cattle, then I think it is time I should turn a bull of another breed in with my cows.
Being negative about your breed or the breed association, without ever offering possible solutions just never works and only makes your own life miserable. There is so much more involved in being successful in the purebred beef business than just producing them. Marketing, promotion and customer service are also key components of any success you might have.
Here is another example of customer service. Two years ago, I had a commercial producer come to our sale and he purchased 4 bulls. This was the first Shorthorn sale he had ever attended, and this man runs 800 cows. One of the bulls he bought cost him $9750. I always urge buyers to insure their purchases especially if they are coming back to our farm after the sale. About two months after the sale, I found the bull that sold for $9750 in the pen with a broken leg. I called the buyer and he told me he had not insured his bulls. I really don't think this bull broke his leg because of anything I had done, but I told him I would give him a $5000 credit in our sale last spring. He showed up and bought 3 bulls at $23,000 with a top price of $8000. I probably didn't need to do this, but I felt it was a very good investment to make to retain a customer who potentially could buy numerous bulls every year.

Having 2 registries ourselves, Composite Beef Cattle Registry and Composite Dairy Cattle Registry, it seems that some people come to the conclusion that registering cattle is not important.  Sometimes we hear comments like "I don't need to register my cattle, my name associated with an animal is all anyone needs to know".  But just as was stated here, too often times some feel that a registry is responsible for selling their cattle.  To some degree it is, here's why:  When you register your cattle you receive back a registration certificate that documents the ancestry of the animal.  How many times do you see bulls advertised that they are sired by "so-and-so" and out of "Doner 355",  Who was donor 355? If you also provide performance information, then other genetic information is also available for that animal as well.  If you do not register an animal nor provide any performance information, how can you expect someone to beat a path to you to purchase breeding stock.  We have seen it as well that on many bull purchases some buyers don't care about the papers, but when they are buying they darn sure want to see them.  That registration paper shows  potential customers that you are willing to take the extra time to keep records of your herd’s lineage, production, and  breeding. Potential customers will know they are receiving high quality cattle when they purchase from you by being able to present complete records, pedigree information, and genetic evaluations.  All of this documentation will go a long way to increasing buyer interest and their willingness to pay a higher price.

Registries should also do their due diligence when it comes to registration papers.  Many registries that even if the dam is a Registered Angus for example will only list her on papers as "Commercial Angus".  In this day and age of the Internet, ALL pedigree information should be available on a pedigree.  With our Registries, we have access to over 40 databases Internationally and a good relationship with other registries that we can if need be ask for additional pedigree information.  We have registered animals that their sires were supposed to be purebred but some are actually less than 50% of the breed.  Some beef animals tracing back have dairy genetics in their makeup but it was covered up by listing that part of the ancestry as XB (Crossbred Beef).  And yes it does seem that some registries no longer represent the breed.  How many sales of some of these breeds offer any purebred bulls?

I will agree that registering animals and providing performance data and receiving genetic evaluation information back should be affordable.  But at what point does the cost for all of these services becomes too expensive?  Associations and Registries cannot operate without members and registrations, customers are vital to any business and without them no business can exist.

As members of any organization you have a voice.  Change can be made but if everyone sets back on their laurels and does nothing but complain then nothing will change. 
 

sue

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PhilWaters67 said:
Hi all!

I was wondering if anyone on here knows what is up with Roy Lovaas and his Shorthorn program now days.  I remember he was starting a Native Shorthorn breeding program a few years back.  I have not seen an update on his website since 2008 (8 years ago).  Is he still raising Native Shorthorn cattle?

Roy served on the board of American Shorthorn and resigned shortly after Ron Bolze stepped away. I thought Roy had all of his shorthorns recorded with American Milking Shorthorn? It's been along time since I spoke to Roy. For those that are reading he wrote a lovely note about his thoughts about a "pacer performance cow" should be and this was distributed among the very first Shorthorn University Trip in 2004.  The last I knew he was raising both "native" and performance shorthorns. Visiting with Roy would be well worth your time.
 

PhilWaters67

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Thanks for the information.  I'll try to get in touch with him when I get back in town.  Good to hear that his breeding program is doing well. 
 

MDitmars

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Messages
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Sue ASA had to verify lineage because Milking shorthorn society doesn't have pedigree records on the older bulls. I believe last time I talked to him he was OK with registering at least in the Milking shorthorn society.

That being said Justintime I don't completely support what the ASA is doing. For instance I take you for the scholarly type and have noticed one of your articles in Shorthorn Country and while I enjoyed reading it. The problem is that Shorthorn country seems to only have fluff pieces. When you look, Shorthorn Country is supported by breeders buying ad space in breed magazine only for the readers to simply buy a book of ads. Where are the current scientific studies; you talking about what makes you successful; or other relevant cattle related articles? I could probably find more useful articles in playboy... The association not only endorse this abuse of its members it encourages it by forcing the entire breed to buy it.

Not to mention put yourself in my shoes Just getting back into cattle (after being off the farm for 10 years after high school) and I am expected to pay $100 for membership and $20($16 if early) per animal I own PER YEAR. I want to be a part of the the shorthorn breed as much as anyone simply because my family has been raising shorthorns for more than 100 years and I still believe in the breed. I just can't afford to maintain registry through the ASA right now. I register to the AMSS because I can pay $50 to transfer registry (for sales purposes) because what i have is "Native" and don't have to register every animal. Honestly I am starting a grass fed operation to market local beef similar to what Roy is doing because there isn't much of a market right now in the sale barn.
 

justintime

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Ditmars said:
Sue ASA had to verify lineage because Milking shorthorn society doesn't have pedigree records on the older bulls. I believe last time I talked to him he was OK with registering at least in the Milking shorthorn society.

That being said Justintime I don't completely support what the ASA is doing. For instance I take you for the scholarly type and have noticed one of your articles in Shorthorn Country and while I enjoyed reading it. The problem is that Shorthorn country seems to only have fluff pieces. When you look, Shorthorn Country is supported by breeders buying ad space in breed magazine only for the readers to simply buy a book of ads. Where are the current scientific studies; you talking about what makes you successful; or other relevant cattle related articles? I could probably find more useful articles in playboy... The association not only endorse this abuse of its members it encourages it by forcing the entire breed to buy it.

Not to mention put yourself in my shoes Just getting back into cattle (after being off the farm for 10 years after high school) and I am expected to pay $100 for membership and $20($16 if early) per animal I own PER YEAR. I want to be a part of the the shorthorn breed as much as anyone simply because my family has been raising shorthorns for more than 100 years and I still believe in the breed. I just can't afford to maintain registry through the ASA right now. I register to the AMSS because I can pay $50 to transfer registry (for sales purposes) because what i have is "Native" and don't have to register every animal. Honestly I am starting a grass fed operation to market local beef similar to what Roy is doing because there isn't much of a market right now in the sale barn.

I understand your concerns about the whole herd registry system, but almost every breed I can think of, at least here in Canada, has moved in that direction. Personally, the whole herd registry is a good thing for me, as it allows me to actually pay less than I used to and I get every calf registered and transferred if the sell them. For what I do, the whole herd program works good, but I understand the issues new or smaller breeders have with it. I dispersed my Charolais herd in 2004 and at that time, we had been in the whole herd registry in that breed for a few years. I did not want to be in it at that time, but the costs involved with registering and transferring part of my calf crop was more than the whole herd registry was. Breed associations like whole herd registry simply because they can budget and plan each year much better because they have a much better idea of what their income is going to be. They have costs in wages, promotion etc that have to be paid as well. Running an association is not an easy business even with the whole herd program. As for the $100 membership fee, I think that is a small cost to pay to be able to be a part of any breed and it's programs. One of my sister's lives in a city and it costs her $100 per year to license her dog, where she lives.
As for the Shorthorn Country, it is totally separate from the ASA as it is leased out to Don Cagwin. While it is good to have lots of articles in a breed magazine, they can only be included, if there is enough advertising to pay for them. I am editor of the Canadian Shorthorn magazine and I have oftentimes had to cut some articles because the advertising revenues did not warrant the costs of additional pages. Most readers of a breed magazine want show and sale reports, as well as articles of interest in the magazine. These items have to be paid for by the advertising in each issue. I may be different that some people, in that I consider advertising as important as any other cost of production my cattle have. I guess I grew up with this mentality, as I can remember my dad picking out an animal from the bottom end of his herd, so he could advertise the rest of the herd. He always said " it is hard to sell them, if nobody knows you have them". 
As I mentioned in a previous post, I am oftentimes in total disagreement with what a breed association has done or is doing. That doesn't mean I would ever decide to quit registering my cattle. To me, that is just hurting yourself, because of what someone else is doing to you. I still maintain that having cattle registered is still a solid way to add value to your cattle.
 

Okotoks

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Aug 17, 2010
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3,083
justintime said:
Ditmars said:
Sue ASA had to verify lineage because Milking shorthorn society doesn't have pedigree records on the older bulls. I believe last time I talked to him he was OK with registering at least in the Milking shorthorn society.

That being said Justintime I don't completely support what the ASA is doing. For instance I take you for the scholarly type and have noticed one of your articles in Shorthorn Country and while I enjoyed reading it. The problem is that Shorthorn country seems to only have fluff pieces. When you look, Shorthorn Country is supported by breeders buying ad space in breed magazine only for the readers to simply buy a book of ads. Where are the current scientific studies; you talking about what makes you successful; or other relevant cattle related articles? I could probably find more useful articles in playboy... The association not only endorse this abuse of its members it encourages it by forcing the entire breed to buy it.

Not to mention put yourself in my shoes Just getting back into cattle (after being off the farm for 10 years after high school) and I am expected to pay $100 for membership and $20($16 if early) per animal I own PER YEAR. I want to be a part of the the shorthorn breed as much as anyone simply because my family has been raising shorthorns for more than 100 years and I still believe in the breed. I just can't afford to maintain registry through the ASA right now. I register to the AMSS because I can pay $50 to transfer registry (for sales purposes) because what i have is "Native" and don't have to register every animal. Honestly I am starting a grass fed operation to market local beef similar to what Roy is doing because there isn't much of a market right now in the sale barn.

I understand your concerns about the whole herd registry system, but almost every breed I can think of, at least here in Canada, has moved in that direction. Personally, the whole herd registry is a good thing for me, as it allows me to actually pay less than I used to and I get every calf registered and transferred if the sell them. For what I do, the whole herd program works good, but I understand the issues new or smaller breeders have with it. I dispersed my Charolais herd in 2004 and at that time, we had been in the whole herd registry in that breed for a few years. I did not want to be in it at that time, but the costs involved with registering and transferring part of my calf crop was more than the whole herd registry was. Breed associations like whole herd registry simply because they can budget and plan each year much better because they have a much better idea of what their income is going to be. They have costs in wages, promotion etc that have to be paid as well. Running an association is not an easy business even with the whole herd program. As for the $100 membership fee, I think that is a small cost to pay to be able to be a part of any breed and it's programs. One of my sister's lives in a city and it costs her $100 per year to license her dog, where she lives.
As for the Shorthorn Country, it is totally separate from the ASA as it is leased out to Don Cagwin. While it is good to have lots of articles in a breed magazine, they can only be included, if there is enough advertising to pay for them. I am editor of the Canadian Shorthorn magazine and I have oftentimes had to cut some articles because the advertising revenues did not warrant the costs of additional pages. Most readers of a breed magazine want show and sale reports, as well as articles of interest in the magazine. These items have to be paid for by the advertising in each issue. I may be different that some people, in that I consider advertising as important as any other cost of production my cattle have. I guess I grew up with this mentality, as I can remember my dad picking out an animal from the bottom end of his herd, so he could advertise the rest of the herd. He always said " it is hard to sell them, if nobody knows you have them". 
As I mentioned in a previous post, I am oftentimes in total disagreement with what a breed association has done or is doing. That doesn't mean I would ever decide to quit registering my cattle. To me, that is just hurting yourself, because of what someone else is doing to you. I still maintain that having cattle registered is still a solid way to add value to your cattle.
If there was a "like" button I would use it. There are so many expenses with farming that getting those registrations done seems like just another cost but really I think it's a pretty good value. It doesn't matter how good that purebred animal is or the fact it has generations of selected breeding if it's not registered! Yes you can sell unpapered animals for a premium but you are not going to get full value. $100 doesn't even cover the cost of filling our diesel truck! Sometimes I talk to people in the Canadian system that buy a membership every 3 or 4 years, they register a couple of calves, they always have lots of criticism for the "association" but if every breeder did that there just wouldn't be an association!
 

cbcr

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Feb 17, 2011
Messages
332
Okotoks said:
justintime said:
Ditmars said:
Sue ASA had to verify lineage because Milking shorthorn society doesn't have pedigree records on the older bulls. I believe last time I talked to him he was OK with registering at least in the Milking shorthorn society.

That being said Justintime I don't completely support what the ASA is doing. For instance I take you for the scholarly type and have noticed one of your articles in Shorthorn Country and while I enjoyed reading it. The problem is that Shorthorn country seems to only have fluff pieces. When you look, Shorthorn Country is supported by breeders buying ad space in breed magazine only for the readers to simply buy a book of ads. Where are the current scientific studies; you talking about what makes you successful; or other relevant cattle related articles? I could probably find more useful articles in playboy... The association not only endorse this abuse of its members it encourages it by forcing the entire breed to buy it.

Not to mention put yourself in my shoes Just getting back into cattle (after being off the farm for 10 years after high school) and I am expected to pay $100 for membership and $20($16 if early) per animal I own PER YEAR. I want to be a part of the the shorthorn breed as much as anyone simply because my family has been raising shorthorns for more than 100 years and I still believe in the breed. I just can't afford to maintain registry through the ASA right now. I register to the AMSS because I can pay $50 to transfer registry (for sales purposes) because what i have is "Native" and don't have to register every animal. Honestly I am starting a grass fed operation to market local beef similar to what Roy is doing because there isn't much of a market right now in the sale barn.

I understand your concerns about the whole herd registry system, but almost every breed I can think of, at least here in Canada, has moved in that direction. Personally, the whole herd registry is a good thing for me, as it allows me to actually pay less than I used to and I get every calf registered and transferred if the sell them. For what I do, the whole herd program works good, but I understand the issues new or smaller breeders have with it. I dispersed my Charolais herd in 2004 and at that time, we had been in the whole herd registry in that breed for a few years. I did not want to be in it at that time, but the costs involved with registering and transferring part of my calf crop was more than the whole herd registry was. Breed associations like whole herd registry simply because they can budget and plan each year much better because they have a much better idea of what their income is going to be. They have costs in wages, promotion etc that have to be paid as well. Running an association is not an easy business even with the whole herd program. As for the $100 membership fee, I think that is a small cost to pay to be able to be a part of any breed and it's programs. One of my sister's lives in a city and it costs her $100 per year to license her dog, where she lives.
As for the Shorthorn Country, it is totally separate from the ASA as it is leased out to Don Cagwin. While it is good to have lots of articles in a breed magazine, they can only be included, if there is enough advertising to pay for them. I am editor of the Canadian Shorthorn magazine and I have oftentimes had to cut some articles because the advertising revenues did not warrant the costs of additional pages. Most readers of a breed magazine want show and sale reports, as well as articles of interest in the magazine. These items have to be paid for by the advertising in each issue. I may be different that some people, in that I consider advertising as important as any other cost of production my cattle have. I guess I grew up with this mentality, as I can remember my dad picking out an animal from the bottom end of his herd, so he could advertise the rest of the herd. He always said " it is hard to sell them, if nobody knows you have them". 
As I mentioned in a previous post, I am oftentimes in total disagreement with what a breed association has done or is doing. That doesn't mean I would ever decide to quit registering my cattle. To me, that is just hurting yourself, because of what someone else is doing to you. I still maintain that having cattle registered is still a solid way to add value to your cattle.
If there was a "like" button I would use it. There are so many expenses with farming that getting those registrations done seems like just another cost but really I think it's a pretty good value. It doesn't matter how good that purebred animal is or the fact it has generations of selected breeding if it's not registered! Yes you can sell unpapered animals for a premium but you are not going to get full value. $100 doesn't even cover the cost of filling our diesel truck! Sometimes I talk to people in the Canadian system that buy a membership every 3 or 4 years, they register a couple of calves, they always have lots of criticism for the "association" but if every breeder did that there just wouldn't be an association!

This is so true!  The Whole Herd Programs are very important because information is reported on all animals not just the best ones that are registered.

While realizing that registries have expenses as well for wages/salaries, office rent/leases, and keeping up programs and services offered to members.  Genetic evaluations have costs associated with them as well.  The software that is used by some organizations has a cost of $60,000 per year for a license.  With breed registries pooling together, the costs may be greatly reduced.

One place where we disagree with the cost of the Whole Herd Programs is what members are charged.  How many register 100% of their calf crop?  What we do with our program is charge producers $10 per breeding age female and then they can register any resulting animal for 1/2 price.  With this it would put an additional $250 in a producers pocket based on a 100 cow herd and registering 50% of the calves.

But if you look at it from the registries side that same $250 per 100 members results in $25,000 in the registries pockets.

No matter how you look at it, documented proof of the ancestry of your animals is very important.  Plus with a registration certificate in hand it gives potential customers comfort in knowing that it should be accurate.  Some people may sell animals as purebred, feeling that it is not important to register those animals because to them it is a wast of money, but yet they want to use information and services of the registry in the marketing.  All this does is make it more expensive for everyone else.

In the U.S. registering animals is a privilege.  Other Countries it is almost mandatory and if animals are not registered they are docked in value. 
 

Broken Oak

New member
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
1
Location
Winter Haven Florida
Spoke with Roy about 6 months ago.... he's doing good! He had purchased a bull from me "Rosa's Commands 05" produced from the Haumont herd in Nebraska and now has semen collected on him.
 

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Mark H

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
645
When a purebred breeder sends in the papers on his cows  to the association or does not keep up the registrations on the calves then it is an admission of defeat.  The purebred business is a tough business and you have to have everything in place to make it work, the cattle, the customer service, etc.
Also no organization aside from the owner is responsible for marketing their cattle.  Where the association come in is doing things for a bred that no one breeder can do on their own.  This includes papering and performance data collection. Doing these things takes money, time and expertise.  The fees charged by the association allow these things to go forward on a routine basis.  I would like to see more breeder involvement in understanding how performance information is collected, evaluated, and ultimately turned into EPDs.  For example weighing procedures have a large impact on the data collected yet we hear so little about them.  Also what information is collected but not used-what kind of rules govern this?
What about collecting information on bull and breed performance on commercial cows? Ultimately isn't this the most important information collected so why is so much effort given only to collecting data on purebreds?
Ultimately you get out what you put in.  If you want more from your breed association then you have to put more time, money, and resources of all sorts to get more out. 
 

cbcr

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
332
Mark H said:
When a purebred breeder sends in the papers on his cows  to the association or does not keep up the registrations on the calves then it is an admission of defeat.  The purebred business is a tough business and you have to have everything in place to make it work, the cattle, the customer service, etc.
Also no organization aside from the owner is responsible for marketing their cattle.  Where the association come in is doing things for a bred that no one breeder can do on their own.  This includes papering and performance data collection. Doing these things takes money, time and expertise.  The fees charged by the association allow these things to go forward on a routine basis.  I would like to see more breeder involvement in understanding how performance information is collected, evaluated, and ultimately turned into EPDs.  For example weighing procedures have a large impact on the data collected yet we hear so little about them.  Also what information is collected but not used-what kind of rules govern this?
What about collecting information on bull and breed performance on commercial cows? Ultimately isn't this the most important information collected so why is so much effort given only to collecting data on purebreds?
Ultimately you get out what you put in.  If you want more from your breed association then you have to put more time, money, and resources of all sorts to get more out.

Very Well Said!
 
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